Trenton ReynoldsThis is Room in the Trees, a podcast about living a creative life. Room in the Trees is hosted by Sabrina Ward-Harrison and me, Trent Reynolds.
Sabrina Ward Harrisonshow notes including pictures links video and more for every episode can be found at
Trenton Reynoldsroominthetrees.com if you like this podcast please consider showing your support you can become a subscribing patron at patreon.com forward slash room and now here's this week's episode
Sabrina Ward Harrisoni was inspired to see when i was listening to this uh terry gross interview on fresh air with this musician, John Batiste. He was on Fresh Air, NPR's Fresh Air, on March 11th.
Trenton ReynoldsYou sent me that link, and I meant to go get it, and I haven't. But tell me about it.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWell, you should hear his version of the Star Spangled Banner. Like, you can even hear in her voice. I've been listening to my whole life, her interview people. And she just, I mean, she was speechless. It was just so... She described it as most inclusive, like it has so many layers and levels of evocative soul to it. The music is just, it really did something to me yesterday.
Trenton ReynoldsI just downloaded it, so I will definitely give that a listen.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonBut how he talks about, they talk about joy and the need to, you know, evoke joy. I thought it was such an interesting thought about. how our culture and our communities are longing for joy, especially after this year, just this ache inspired and uplifted and in a really genuine, deep soulful way.
Trenton ReynoldsThat is, is interesting to think of that word. You know, I hadn't really thought about its absence until you said it right now, but just like there have been happy moments this year that, you know, there've been good things that have happened. Yeah. you know, just as life goes on, but there, I don't feel like joy has been present for sure.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonJoy feels when I think of joy, I think of unbridled untethered.
Trenton ReynoldsWe have definitely been bridled this year. Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat would be a check on that Mark. Yes. We have been officially bridled. Yeah. Yeah. There's something about yesterday, living in a place with four seasons, you have the really distinctive feeling of the seasons changing. And yesterday just felt like one of those days where I bought this, my early memories of Berkeley and living in Berkeley was always the pink jasmine that grew everywhere. And it's distinctly different than the white jasmine. different sweet, wonderful smell. And I'd never seen it growing here in Madison. And I was at the grocery store and I saw a little pot of it. And I'm like, Oh, and it, and so I got it home. And then yesterday I was trying to take it out of its pot. And it was just the symbolism of it. It was so packed with its roots. Like it had nowhere to breathe or there's no, it was so overly crammed and grown out of the size of its little tiny pot. And, And to free it and pull it out and then replant it just felt, and listening to that conversation yesterday and then his, his music, it was like, there's a joy. I don't know if some freedom, like open my, in my chest to life, like, like it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. Um, It's just...
Trenton ReynoldsThat's a fantastic metaphor, just thinking about those roots in the pot.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThere is that feeling of just restriction and suffocation. Yes. In so many different aspects of life, right? It just feels like we need... to be able to just stretch. Yeah. Yeah. Reach, reach out, you know, in so many ways it's been just so isolated and cut off.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsI hadn't really thought about that, that, I mean, just not just isolated and cut off in terms of being alone, but in your ability to, um, grow. Right? I don't know that like all the people that we interact with and the ways that we interact with the world in terms of how we go out and experience nature, experience museums and human accomplishment. Those are all ways that we are sending roots out and are like how we're expanding ourselves. We're becoming bigger, right? And without that room to grow, you know, like there's something that just dies. Yeah. It just isn't allowed to flourish. Anyway, I guess I'm saying the obvious things, but...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonNo, but it's true. Like we have to grow as beings in order to continue to move anything forward in our own life. We also have to have experiences and be growing together. exploration and needing to, you know, have, have new experiences. And when those are cut off, there's that stagnation.
Trenton ReynoldsSo how would you describe this, this looking back at the year and anticipating having more freedom, going back to something that resembled the before times a little bit more, what have we learned or how, how have things changed? for the better, like in terms of, you know, being able to connect with people online. Like what have you, I don't know, I feel like this impulse to want to acknowledge the growth that has happened or the things that have been learned through this difficult time. You know, trials always bring understanding, you know, or new learning.
What have we learned?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat's a great question. Let me think about that. I've learned very clearly like my I think more boundaries around my time and my intentions of like what I'm here to do and be in my life right now and I think in the older time I would think I've there's like a lot of opportunity for growth and expansion with my cup my company and I also feel very clearly like my role is here to be a creative leader and also to be a partner to this this human Sean McCabe. So there's a way in which I really feel like there's, there's, there's a limit on, on how much I'm, I don't know if I'm saying it like that,
like, like,
Sabrina Ward Harrisonin the past I would think, okay, this opportunity, this opportunity, I need to take this and this. And now it's like, okay, how can I work out my year? So I'm able to be a partner and be a leader and have, and be really present for, for both and the whole thing in its entirety.
Trenton ReynoldsI think that's one of the maybe unique challenges of our time is that, you know, with so much tumult, with so much changing in terms of like how, like what jobs are available or how humans communicate and then so many things are changing with the technology and access that we have and what we're empowered to do and then add on top of that social media where we can access directly and you you know, people who love us or want to follow us and want, you know, our time and attention and need, you know, our time and attention. Like, it is so tempting to want to do it all. - Yeah, right. - To try to do it all. 'Cause you're empowered to do it all. The only problem is that you cannot, you don't have the time or resources as a person to do it all. Right. So I, I, for me, that's been one of the big takeaways this year too, is that I have limited resources. I cannot do it all. Not because I'm not empowered to do it all. Right. I've got, I've got the technology. I could do it. Right. Right. I could, I could be on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and, you know, have a blog and have a YouTube channel. Right. Like I can do all those things. Like, in terms of like skill and tools, but every one of those things that I engage with and let occupy my time is, you know, has is taking something from me and taking something, So anyway, I definitely hear you on like really needing to get clear on what is your life going to be about and what, what are you here to do that only you can do or that needs to take precedence over everything else, you know, and really finding ways to protect that and, and lean into it. you say absolutely but yeah but i think in that you know there is still like this well like you're talking about like you know there's this feeling like oh i've got to grab every opportunity that yeah yeah right yeah there's this anxiety of like if i don't take advantage of everything that presents itself then i'm going to miss the chance right and And, you know, maybe there's a certain amount of truth to that, but there's a huge lie in there.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsBecause none of your attempts are going to go anywhere if you don't put enough focus into one thing, right? It's all just going to fizzle. So, I don't know. Yes and no, right? Right. Yes, you got to just work through the difficult time of trying to start something up that's new. But you also just got to put the work in to lock in. I don't know. I'm struggling with that right now. Like really having a hard time like getting rid of all the noise and just deciding what is this about and what do I need to dig into? Right, right. Like, you know, is it classes? Is it a podcast? Is it a – is it a membership or is it individual classes or, you know, what, what is, what exactly is it? Is it critiques and critique groups? Like, uh, like there are little bits of all of those things that feel essential, but I've got to start somewhere, right? I can't do it all at the dying on the vine. Anyway, I'm sorry. I interrupted your...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonNo, I get it. I get it. I feel that I empathize.
Trenton ReynoldsI think you're at a further along stage in the same kind of trajectory in the same storyline. Right. You know, you're down the line a ways and, you know, maybe at a higher stage of refinement. But I still think, like, I've got to figure out... out how to just weed out all the unnecessary stuff so I can really push on the most essential.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd everything feels tied to itself, which is tricky.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, yeah. You try to say, okay, I'm really going to focus in. I'm really going to lock down. And so you start trying to take things out and you realize, wait a second, these things are like connected by an umbilical cord to this thing, right? Like I can't take that out.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. That's not just a rope. That's an umbilical cord. That's a lifeline.
Trenton ReynoldsThat is a lifeline. Baby's going to die.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI think there's this thing that we think we're going to make the wrong decision or something.
Right. Right.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. We can just end up circling down that road too.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, no. But this is a really curious thing, I think, when we talk about creativity is that I think the same thing goes when you're making a painting or any kind of work of art. Like you're afraid to start because you're afraid of making the wrong decision. Yeah. Right. You're afraid that you're going to start off incorrectly and somehow that's going to make mean that you can't make the artwork that you want to make. There's this anxiety about just committing to something. What I always find myself telling people is it doesn't matter where you start. It just matters that you start. You just got to put the wrong color down. Consciously choose the wrong color and just put it on the canvas. Right. Get rid of that anxiety about starting you know, if anything, just go completely the wrong direction, just so you can realize that it doesn't hurt to make a mistake at the beginning, right? It's just more important that you just start and get that momentum up.
Amen.
Trenton ReynoldsAnyway, I think maybe there's...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI was thinking about my students in Liberate starting in it. The first thing we do is this master list process, and I was thinking about how someone has said on a call this week, like, I just love how artists, real artists, they just don't give a fuck. They just don't. They just do whatever. And I thought, oh, that's... that's not me. I really, you know, I really care about what other people think of it. But when it comes to... And then I... So I'm thinking this like, oh, gosh, I sure wish I didn't care too much. And then I realized... Then I'm thinking about the video. Someone commented on one of the videos in the portal.
And I realized,
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI could see how people, like... like, I guess, because I just, I end up having the vision for this masterful video, but it ends up being shot on my phone, and it's like the masterless demo is like all kind of crumply a little bit, and it's like from 23 years ago, and it's got, it's on my bedspread. I'm not like in this, it's not like up lit perfectly. It's like, and then like my dog's trying to jump on the bed at the same time, and like that's the video. Yeah. for the first lesson. Just that freedom of like, she's just going to show us how she did it. She's not going to like officially, it doesn't seem so maybe much like I'm teaching. I'm like showing them along the way. And I think that gives them a sense of permission for that. just how messy life is.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, I think there's something really important in there. It's not that you don't care about what people think. It's not that you... But that's... They're looking at this thinking like, oh, she's so free. She doesn't... It doesn't matter to her that her... you know, dog's jumping up on the bed. Right. You know, like she doesn't need it to be perfect and it's still okay. But it's not that you don't, like you probably would prefer that your dog didn't jump on the bed right there. Exactly. But it just wasn't really an option, right? Like you couldn't really do anything about that. And that's just how it had to be right in that moment given your circumstances and constraints. And I think that is a lesson. It's not that you don't care. It's just that you did it anyway.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsRight? You just, you had a certain set of circumstances to work with and you did it and you posted it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd it's, it's amazing to think though that like, but what was communicated is that you had this kind of, you know, I don't care, I'm going to do it anyway attitude. Right? That's what was communicated, even though that probably couldn't have been further from the truth. You know, like you did care. You wanted it to be the best thing as possible.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI think that what you have to model when you begin a book is you just have to keep trying to not take yourself too seriously. You have to keep getting in that flow and alignment to, let the magic come through. It's like you can't, we can't be too precious with anything or it's, I mean, no interesting book's going to come out of a tightly wound person trying to measure out and, you know, do this, this master list and have everything measured in columns and stuff like that. The more I have to remember as a leader to be just showing more as is, like, this is my situation. I hope we'll help people feel like it's just like life is messy and we're just we're putting ourselves out there to be of service if we can be to help other people. And it can be a little scrappy sometimes. It's more important that it's us and it's true.
Trenton ReynoldsYou know, just listening to you talk, it also occurs to me that part of it, that anxiety of not being able to start, it's driven by your expectation that it needs to be a certain way. Yeah.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsLike it's all, and if it's not that way, then it's not what it needs to be. Right. But, but when in reality, like you get to decide what it needs to be.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd in fact, that decision's already been made, whether you like it or not, because you're who you are. Right. Right. And, and the harder you try to. conform to this external sense of, you know, what things ought to be and how they ought to look. And like, the more you try to reach for that, you know, the further away you're going to get from just what it already is and need, you know, has to be anyway. Yeah. It's a little too woo woo. I'm trying to bring that in, but it's, I don't know. I think it's funny. Like just, how much we get in our own way. Yeah. And how it's just, it's the, we're already us. The answer's already there. I know. And it's not that you don't care. It's that, you're focused on the right thing. You're focused on just being, being that thing that you already are, you know, and get letting that flow, letting that out. That's so beautiful, Trent.
So what would that be? I say these things.
Trenton ReynoldsI knew, I knew that was coming. I don't know, Sabrina. I don't know. And, and I think I am having a hard time. time with that. And these are conversations that Laura and I have nearly daily, because I think she and I both realize that I'm trying to do too many things. Right. And it's just not a sustainable path. And I've got a history. I've got a history of being a little bit self-deprecating, not trusting, you know, not valuing or appreciating the voice that is already there, you know. It's like I'm already always looking for what I ought to be. Looking for that external approval or that external way to measure my value or what I have to offer. You know?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI don't know. Yeah, it's all those voices we get in our head. Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, it's history and... But it's also just, you know, I was talking to Laura just the other night. It's also the truth that we're just living through a challenging time.
Right, right.
Trenton ReynoldsThere are just, you know, sometimes it's just hard.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd it's not anybody's fault. No. And nothing's wrong. It's just hard.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. I think that's the bottom line of all of this right now. And it kind of circles back to the beginning of the conversation about that.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward Harrisonit's like what in this time like this is an unprecedented we're not we're like that jasmine plant in the pot it's just it's too everything's too tight so you can't really walk loosely in the
Trenton Reynoldsdirection you need to go but i think maybe to to go back to that jasmine metaphor the that's one way to think about it like we're that jasmine that needs to be planted in a bigger pot. But I think we also, I guess maybe where that metaphor falls apart is I think we have the capacity to kind of change our perspective and see the opportunity that exists already and to be able to find joy when it doesn't seem possible. like joy is present. You know, like I really do believe that. I think people that have been in far more challenging circumstances than I am in have been able to find meaning and joy and happiness, you know, and have been in far more restricted and hopeless life paths than mine. have been able to find meaning and joy and fulfillment and satisfaction. Right, yeah. You know, so we have the ability, you know, to basically kind of change ourselves for it to be okay no matter where we are.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThat's hard to do though. Gosh, that's hard to do. So let's talk about happy things.
Yeah.
Trenton Reynoldswhat's happy?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAll right, what's happy?
Well.
Trenton ReynoldsLet me tell you about the swing. We got a swing for the balcony, the front balcony. So one of the wonderful things about this past year is that in an attempt to make our home a happier kind of, happier place to be. We've just been doing a lot more gardening on the balcony. So we've got a lot of plants. We've got this umbrella tree. We've got an orange tree that we ate the first orange just last month. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. You betcha. Wow. And then we've got succulents and basil, and then I'm growing some snapdragons right now. How fantastic! Oh my gosh! Yes, so there is, and it's, you know, you don't know until you've, you know, it's there, but like, it brings so much, like, just like a breath of fresh air to be able to look out the window and see green, you know, colors. Yes! makes a huge difference. So just a couple weeks ago, I got a hanging swing. It's just like this big frame. And you can get the, you know, and they're just like hanging this like little pod. And, you know, outdoor pillows. And you put them on the swing. The girls can, you know, go outside and hang
Sabrina Ward Harrisonthat's really cool that's wonderful they'll have so many memories of that
Trenton Reynoldsso that brings me quite a bit of joy yeah
Sabrina Ward Harrisonoh that's really cool I can picture that balcony and that's so I love that you're doing the gardening and growing things I remember when that was the very beginning when you had that that cool thing you created so you could have a little garden back there
Trenton Reynoldsyeah and that failed i put that one i built this uh kind of above ground planner which was uh which was a fun project but i put it on the back balcony we don't get enough sun on the back back balcony oh now i took apart that planner and then from that planner the wood of the planner i made these benches for the front balcony and we get plenty of sun on the front balcony so the gardening has been much better on the front balcony okay okay but that maybe is you know part of this lesson is just you know you got to start and i learned a lot from making the mistakes on the back balcony and oh yeah now because of that we've got an awesome little garden on the front balcony oh we that has to be
Sabrina Ward Harrisonthe cover of this week's episode i love that oh yeah i'll take a picture i'll take a picture I can hear the ducks back in the lake. They just arrived back yesterday. And I saw five robins in the backyard. So spring in Madison, it's like trumpets going off. It's really exciting when that happens here.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, I had never really thought of that. But I bet there's a bunch of sounds that come in when life returns. Yeah.
That's cool. It's really cool.
Trenton Reynoldsgroup. Really excited for this session. Yes.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOne woman has a sword. Yes! Oh. You're off to a fantastic sword.
Trenton ReynoldsSword! I want to see this sword. Yeah.
That's fantastic.
Trenton ReynoldsOh, did I tell you that my friend and I went to the showroom for this laser cutter?
No.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah. Well, speaking of my inability to focus, I feel unable to... Stop thinking about lasers. Laser cutters. Anyway, looks like I might be going in halvesies with a friend and getting a laser cutter.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThen you're going to give up this whole online thing, man. You're going to be a laser cutter man.
Trenton ReynoldsI'm going to be a laser cutter. man before I know it. Maybe this is my calling. It's just getting
Sabrina Ward Harrisonreally clear what you enjoy really doing. But you like doing so many things. So... Yeah. That's true.
Trenton ReynoldsThat is the problem. That's why I dabble on. I know. Most of the dabbler.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYep. So harnessing that. Harnessing that. There's gotta be a way.
Gotta be a way. Yep. Thanks for listening.
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Trenton ReynoldsYou can follow us on Instagram at Sabrina Ward Harrison and at Trent Reynolds Art.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd check out the show notes at roominthetrees.com where you can also get in touch if you have any ideas you'd like to share.
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