Trenton ReynoldsThis is Room in the Trees, a podcast about living a creative life. Room in the Trees is hosted by Sabrina Ward-Harrison and me, Trent Reynolds.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonShow notes including pictures, links, video, and more for every episode can be found at roominthetrees.com.
Trenton ReynoldsIf you like this podcast, please consider showing your support. You can become a subscribing patron at patreon.com forward slash room.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd now here's this week's episode. First, I just want to introduce Hannah Finney is our guest today. Hannah and I go way back. We go way, way back. Hannah was in my first art and discovery class that I taught and she was in third grade and it was in Berkeley while I was making Spilling Open. So we've stayed in touch over the years and it's such an honor to have her on as a
Trenton ReynoldsWow, talk about history. That is pretty fantastic.
Hannah Finney WalkerYeah. Great. This is exciting.
Trenton ReynoldsDo you have any memories, Hannah, of that third grade meeting Sabrina and what you guys did?
Hannah Finney WalkerI do. I remember first meeting Sabrina and being totally... captivated by her and I slowly like made it my mission to be as like her as possible. Really? Oh my god. I mean I found some old journals. I'm at my mom's right now in Providence. It We're quarantined here. And I found a bunch of my old journals. And it's so... I wish this was a visual medium. But it's so obvious looking through them. I mean, I was drawing like you. And I tried to make my handwriting kind of like... I had Walt Whitman quotes in there. Totally because of you.
And...
Hannah Finney WalkerThat's awesome. Yeah. But I have great, there's also a photo I have on my Instagram that's pretty telling of me just like, I think you took it, Sabrina, but I'm like snooping through your journal and you can just see on my face, I'm like, in my face, I'm like, how do I recreate this?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYou were so young. You were so young. You have to send Trent the picture so he can have a visual.
I will send it.
Hannah Finney WalkerBut yeah, I started wearing like long skirts and kind of those leotard tops that you'd wear. But then, but that was only, but then years and years. That was later.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWell, years. Starting at the beginning.
Hannah Finney WalkerYeah, yeah. So, but then for years and years, I took your classes after that. I was trying to think of like specific projects we did.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonDo you remember, did you come with Cynthia to my place in Berkeley? Oh, yeah, I remember your place. Yeah. When I had the little signs up around in Berkeley for the class and someone thought it was a dog sitting service or something.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI don't know if Cynthia came over with flowers because they felt kind of sorry for me. I don't know if you were there.
Hannah Finney WalkerI don't know but that rings a bell
Sabrina Ward Harrisonsounds right and then they're like well there's a school that they go to called Aurora and they could have an after school program you could like propose it and so like that's how it happened yeah I vaguely remember that
Trenton ReynoldsSo, Sabrina, you just posted posters all around town that you were having this workshop?
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThis was back in the day before the internet, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So no easy way to get the word out.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, I was in school, and I'd been working at a clothing store, and I'm like, I didn't want to do that. And I, over the summer... I don't know, it was definitely correlated just before making Spilling Open, but I decided I wanted to invent a class that would be the class I wish I could have taken when I was that age. Just before, like, I got into being a teen, you know, pre-teen, like, sort of geared towards, like, 9 to 12-year-olds. and there's obviously no formal teaching or any background. And it was called The Art of Discovery, and it was about actually so many of the themes of Spilling Open, about being real and exploration and... It was about keeping a journal and using not normal rubbed-out type and alternative materials. And I was going to teach it out of my sunroom in Berkeley, and I ended up doing that in And there would be like, and so the kids came to it and we'd all be piled into my sunroom or in the backyard. And then their moms would kind of pick them up and be like, we need this class. So I did. So that was so that's and then that began the whole thing that I teach to this day, basically.
Hannah Finney WalkerWe I remember a lot of dress up tea parties and a lot of fort building. And and one day we made a pizza with raspberries on it. but it was like a full it was like a regular cheese pizza but it had raspberries and it was weirdly delicious i remember that um i remember that so well and then i was just like enchanted by your bedroom too because it was just like there was just stuff everywhere and it was like a little museum and i just wanted to poke around all the time um Oh, yeah, this was a project I remember. You had us write love letters to ourselves on like gigantic pieces of paper. And then you kept them and then like six months later sent them to us in the mail. And I remember being totally like, what's this? This giant envelope. And I think my parents were a little like, whoa, when I opened it, because it was just this gigantic letter that I wrote myself.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI love that.
Hannah Finney WalkerI also remember, I remembered this just before we started the call, but either you were going through a breakup or I had decided that you were. I don't know. I was.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, it's what's filling up and what's about, yeah.
Hannah Finney WalkerOkay, so yeah, so I wrote you this note, and I wish I had it in front of me so I could read exactly what it said, but it was like, no matter how fragile we feel or how silly or how unintelligent, we can all fly or something. And it had a little picture of an airplane, and I think you put it in one of the books. I want to say it was Earth on the Rock. And it has like those two little girls flying um kind of um flanking it on the sides like those those two black and white photographs of those girls with flowers yeah and i remember giving that to you because i was like this will
Sabrina Ward Harrisonhelp sabrina yeah yeah it did it did Because I was just reading Spilling Open the other day. I'm reading it on Instagram TV. And I got to that part. I'd never read the whole thing cover to cover since I published it. Because I think at the time, I was like, I don't want to. I didn't want to. I read it. Like, at book signings, I'd read selected pages of it. But I haven't read the whole thing through. And there was a part about, like, I'd fallen on my knee. And I'd just broken up with Alex, my boyfriend at the time. And I'd come to class and... Anyway, I referenced you guys in the class thing. The wisdom you guys have, the perspective you've given me. Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. I was inspired by you guys. I loved your questions and your answers.
Hannah Finney WalkerYeah, so I, when I was a kid, but then really when I was a teenager and then in my 20s, I got really, really, really intensely into theater. And that became my, like, happy place. And I skipped a lot of school to go to, I was doing theater in San Francisco for many years, and I, like, would totally leave school early, way earlier than was necessary to go to the theater and um that became like my my thing and then i ended up going to a theater conservatory for college which was just pretty magical and um i definitely have days where i'm like i should have gone to a normal college but um but i i it was a really great experience and uh And then after a few years, I sort of bounced around the West Coast, like Seattle, California, and then moved to New York three and a half years ago. And that has been, if someone told me what my New York experience was going to be, I would have... like ask them what they were smoking because it has been a really crazy ride. And it's all, it's funny right now, us all having to be in our homes because I feel like for the first time in three and a half years, I've stopped enough to kind of think about it all. And it's surreal. It's to think about the past three and a half years and the rapid changes and, um, and, uh, yeah, it's just wild to think about. So I moved to New York three and a half years ago and, um, I moved with, uh, uh, a boyfriend who, um, I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with. And then uh, we moved in together, uh, in Brooklyn and two weeks into our move, he broke up with me and, and I, um, it felt like coming to New York and, and, and just being kicked in the gut right away. And, uh, So that was a really interesting time. And now that I mean, I was devastated and scared every single day. And I spent almost a year just essentially while I was house sitting for this woman who I barely knew in Brooklyn. She lived in this ridiculous three story house that was so big for one person and I just lived there and watched over her two little dogs while she was usually off somewhere else and that so that was my first winter in New York I just remember so vividly like being alone in this big empty house and the snow outside and I've never really experienced seasons before being from California and I just remember like just every day having that feeling of like, what is my life? How did this happen? And, but it was interesting because during that time I met, I met so many people. It's kind of dizzying. I met so many people just because I, I forced myself to, um, to go to things by myself essentially all the time and just forced myself to, to make friends. And I did. And it was also an interesting time because weirdly I ended up meeting just all these creatives that I had admired for a long time. And I, and that was very surreal, like in this, already kind of surreal moment. And then, uh, and then I finally moved to Bed-Stuy. I think I opened my suitcase for the first time in like a year in New York, cause I was always floating around. And, and so that was great. Um, And so I guess in the past few years, I've done a little theater. I've done mostly work at the Upright Citizens Brigade, which was sort of an improv theater. And I went to like a very... kind of serious classical theater program so it seemed like the kind of thing that would be fun just to super goofy and silly and there are so many of those classes I just I just looked forward to it especially when I was really sad because you just end up laughing for three hours So that has been great. And what else? I've been doing mostly writing. And I wrote a full-length screenplay with my friend Chelsea Martin last year. We did it all over Skype because she lives in Washington State but we over the course of the year on Skype we wrote this screenplay and it was so weird because at the end when we read it together we were like who wrote this I don't remember writing this do you remember writing this it like just wasn't it was so odd it was like it was written by a third person And we really were very proud of it. But uh, of course right now, especially we're like, what are we supposed to do with this? Chelsea, by the way is a really great author She's published a few books and she went to CCA just like you the brain. Yeah
So
Hannah Finney WalkerAnd then I've managed to make some films that have actually made it into the world. My friend Neil and I did a music video years ago for an artist and Rolling Stone picked it up and wrote about it. And that was pretty cool. And then I think because of the success of that, we... applied for a grant to go shoot this, um, pilgrim, pilgrim sci-fi type film that we wanted to make.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonPilgrim sci-fi. What is, what is that?
Hannah Finney WalkerAh, it's maybe sci-fi isn't the right word. I got to find another one, but it's essentially, um, just a really trippy pilgrim movie. It's about like pilgrims in Virginia, um, back in whatever year that was. But, and their leader is this priest and he's sort of trying to find the panacea for this disease. Oddly, it feels like right now because everyone's dying. But he, you start to wonder if he's really a reliable narrator because you start to see very strange things like pregnant teenage boys and stuff like that. So we made that because we got this grant money to do so.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonPregnant teenage boys. Oh, my God.
Yeah.
Hannah Finney WalkerSo, yeah. So I don't know. I've had just really random projects here and there. And I'm right now, especially since we're all stuck at home, I've been trying to write a lot more. And, yeah. I really have no excuse not to at this point.
Trenton ReynoldsI think you bring up a great point, though, just that, you know, this, I think we're all, to a certain extent, you know, experiencing the same thing where we're being forced to stop, you know, forced to be still. And I think there's a certain amount of anxiety that comes with that, you know, just anticipating all that we're not doing and anticipating what the future holds. But it's also this moment where, it's like you can't help but think back on where you're coming from. And, you know, I don't know. It just feels like this very pivotal moment.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhat's coming up for you, Trent, like what's memories or what, what's kind of surfacing.
Trenton ReynoldsOh, so what's surfacing. Yeah.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsI think I've been doing the same types of things of just kind of reflecting on the past. The past three years for me has been a very specific chapter, you know, because it started when I started teaching at this high school. And I'd never taught high school before. And so it's... I think probably similar to you, Hannah, it's just the past few years have been just this rush of new experience and trying to adjust and figure out what my previous experience meant in this new context and trying to... And I just never feel like I've had a moment to... to just review what's happened so far. It's always just been like trying to keep up with all the new and all the change. So I guess that's, that's kind of where I'm, I'm at. It's just this days of processing, you know,
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd just as shifting and teach professionally teaching some totally different way. And in the midst of also trying to sort of process and be a father to for children at home and
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, yeah, it's just a lot of new, a lot of new stuff.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsBut Hannah, you're facing this, you know, a very pivotal moment too, it seems like. You know, I know theater has been hit pretty hard. Yeah. It's obviously something that requires an audience, something that requires a lot of interaction. So has this been a time to rethink your... I don't know, just creativity, what creativity, what role it has in your life and where you go from here.
Hannah Finney WalkerYeah, I mean, I feel like just in that one aspect, I've been kind of an emotional roller coaster. Sometimes like within the course of a day, like some days, some days I feel really motivated and I start working on something that is enough of an escape that it's really... You know, I just like I I dedicate myself to it for an afternoon and then I feel really good and then I'll wake up the next day and like this happened today. Actually, I just like walked into the kitchen. I just started crying and my mom was like, what's wrong? And And I try to remember what my garbled anxiety, but it was basically like, I was saying exactly that. I was like, I'm so worried for all the, basically all the reasons I ever wanted to live in New York, all the theaters and especially the small weird ones and the movie theaters or like there's, so many great small movie theaters in New York that I think are really suffering right now. And, and the filmmaker, independent filmmakers. And I just was like, I don't know how to hold the pain and uncertainty of all of that. And also what, whatever I, it's hard for me to just create and not worry about what weight, if any, is this going to even hold, um, If that makes sense. I already struggle with that anyway. I mean, it takes so much when I start working on something to try to block out those voices that just immediately start saying, this doesn't mean anything. No one's going to see this. No one's going to care. And weirdly, some days during all this, it's like those voices are completely gone because... in my clearest moments, it's so obvious that, like, the whole reason for doing art is not that. It's the relief it can bring your soul. It is for moments like this. So...
Trenton ReynoldsI think the older you get, too, that dynamic gets really cloudy. As you get older, the more you have to consider, well, how am I going to make money? What is this going to mean to my family? What is this going to mean to some kind of legacy or reputation that I develop? All of these things start to... inform the decisions we make. But I think this, like right now, when all of those are kind of being stripped away a little bit, it's, you know, I think you're right. It's like this moment to realize or get back to the core of what really motivates your creativity or what ultimately drives it and keeps you going even if... the same incentives or the same motivations aren't there.
Hannah Finney WalkerSo I, I work at a school, um, by day I work at a school and it's, it's this incredible, incredible place. It's a school in Manhattan for, for kids ages three to 21 and who have,
um,
Hannah Finney Walkeruh, spectrum conditions like acute autism, uh, and other neurological delays or differences. And, um, I started this job in September. It has truly been one of the most life-changing thing, uh, journeys ever. I'm just completely, I just love these kids so much. And I, some of them are quite literally my favorite people. And, um, just going from a daily routine that is where there's literally never a dull moment. And just, I feel so lucky when I'm there because I get to hear just these fascinating minds. It's incredible working there. And it became the love of my life and it just stopped, you know, it just... two weeks ago on a Friday just stopped and we're like we don't know when we're going back and I called my mom totally it's not I'm making it out like I cry a lot I've cried a lot in these past two weeks But I called her just beside myself and was like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what I'm going to do if I can't go to work. Like, I don't know what's happening. And she drove down from Providence like Mad Max. style and scoop me up and she was like I don't want to be alone come to Providence like get out of New York which turned out to be a good move I think but um I don't know why but I think in my freak out and confusion before leaving my place in New York I packed like one pair of pants and one pair of shoes and one shirt. I had no sense of, like, how long I was going to be here, which now looks like months. But I somehow had the foresight to bring all my tax information and, like, 20 plays to read. So I don't know. Like, one part of my brain was working and the other wasn't. But, yeah. All that is to say, I find that on days where I can't write or it feels pointless, like the best solution is for me to read something by someone I admire. And I've been reading a lot of books. just a lot of plays that I love that I haven't read in a while that were the things that made me want to do theater in the first place. And it's been a really lovely like return to those. I've been reading a lot of Annie Baker's work. I don't know if you know her, but she's someone I, I really admire. And she also writes about people in a very vulnerable, honest, funny way that feels very comforting right now and just reminds me of how much I love and miss people. Another thing I'm doing is drawing portraits of my students. right now. I like drew one and then now I'm drawing all of them. So that's been really
Trenton Reynoldstherapeutic. Theater and an improvisation, improvisation specifically has always been really appealing to me because it's, there's a certain amount of risk and, presence in the moment. I think the same as being in a live theatrical production versus watching a movie. There's this risk involved. Things are on the line and there's and audience interaction. And I think, Sabrina, like thinking about the way that you work and so much of it is about that moment and the connection between people in space, you know, in sharing space and sharing a moment. The things that I love about art is... most is when it's able to connect people in the moment in taking chances in like discovering something new.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd, and yet, I mean, this is something that all three of us, I think thrive on, you know, that those moments of risk and those moments of discovery and newness and change and presence. But it's like, this is just overloading. Yeah. you know, that it's like that impulse, but you know, on a, on a scale that, you know, is just so unimaginable, right. Or just like too much.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonRight. Overloading is a great way to describe it. Yeah. It's just too much on the scale. Like it's, too much.
Trenton ReynoldsBut this is where we thrive, right? This is where we're at our best is when there are no apparent and obvious ways forward or there's no obvious solutions or the things that have always been the narratives that are tried and true are falling apart and you know why is it I don't know I just find it curious.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonPreach Trent, preach. That's so good. Thank you. That's what I need to hear. Yeah, it's true.
Trenton ReynoldsBut yeah, I think I'm hearing you say like, you know, people need now more than ever that connection. And I think for you specifically Sabrina, because I've been here watching, you know, this path that you've been on the past few years. it's like, this is where you thrive. This is your game. This is your jam. Like, but at the same time, yeah, it's like, maybe like, this is the Olympics. This is like, it's go time, like more than ever, but like how to, how to step up to that. And, and maybe the scale is to such a degree that, you know, it's just a completely different ball game. I don't know.
Hannah Finney Walkerhow as an artist anyway, you should be always looking for those moments of doubt and embracing them because in the doubt is possibility. And he was saying, you know, right now you should just, you should, you should lean into the doubt right now because you, we are learning like there isn't a right way to do this. All the things we sort of the false idols that we worship before, like it's just further proof that no one knows anything. And in that you should really have more confidence in your art because of that, because they're, you know, I just connected to that because I'm constantly thinking that, there's something I'm not getting in this. I didn't get the memo. How, you know, maybe I shouldn't write that or maybe that's dumb. And yeah, I hope that made sense.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, I love that. For sure. I also think there's a certain amount of like, maybe we're so drawn to these things because of how much we fear them, you know, because of It's like being drawn to the edge of the cliff. It's just like this impulse to go where there's that thing that is unimaginable or overwhelming.
I know, right?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonLike who in their right mind, just thinking of inventing something up and then thinking you're going to go out.
I don't know. It's just...
Sabrina Ward Harrisonit just sometimes I just think I certainly didn't choose the easiest course here straightforward interesting challenge
Trenton ReynoldsI think there's something in the human soul that wants that you you know, wants to overcome. I, I, I often think of people that have this, you know, desire to go out and climb tall mountains, you know, that they get a certain amount of a high from that, you know, this kind of S this, this upward, you know, transcendental type of feeling. And, and for me, I get that high from when I'm in those moments in a class where I connect with a student and they, recognize something new about themselves or recognize new possibility in creativity or creation. Right. It's like that to me, there's, there's something very tangible and like think something is on the line, you know, where a fear or a barrier was overcome. And like everybody just feels the lift, you know, of overcoming. I don't know.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. Speaking of that, Trenton, you shared pictures last week of some of the photo projects you talked about on that episode, maybe last, last episode. That's right. You were doing and love to hear more about that.
Trenton ReynoldsI was actually talking to a friend of mine who also teaches art at high school. And I was talking to him about this project because it's my favorite project. And I did it again this year. And it was just as awesome. And I realized that I'm trying to teach photography in a different way than I actually use it in my own artwork. Right. this project is actually one of the few that I actually use it or teach it in a way that I used it so yeah I'm teaching Photoshop and how to how to control a DSLR and exposure triangle and all this stuff that is just so technical and boring and then finally I get to this thing where I'm having them crumple up paper and take pictures of the crumpled version and combine it with a digital original and you know of blend mode. And colors are wonky and there's texture and I don't know, it's like a breath of fresh air. But yeah. That's awesome. Today we did a critique on that project, so it's kind of fresh on my mind, but turned up. Turned up fantastic. Hannah, do you have somewhere where people can find more about you? Do you have an Instagram or any other social media that you like to talk about?
Hannah Finney WalkerI have an Instagram and a Twitter that I'm fairly competent at. My Twitter handle is @hanfinnie, H-A-N-F-I-N-N-I-E, and my Instagram is hwalkerfinnie.
Trenton ReynoldsH. Walker Finney.
Hannah Finney WalkerYeah, I'm a bad millennial. I don't have a website, but I have those two things.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonDo you have any advice doing improv? Are there any improv exercises one could do when they're just not in the state and they need to get into a different mental state for people out there coping with like you know, feeling like just hopeless or afraid or... Yeah.
Hannah Finney WalkerYeah, actually, Trent, you mentioned something about, like, being so starkly in the moment with improv. And I think I, for one, I'm feeling like right now is forcing me to be very starkly in the moment. It's weird. It's like everything is all of a sudden... high def or something, something about this, this moment. So I've been kind of struggling with this question and trying to find things. I recommend drawing. I mean, I know that's not like an improv thing, but it's, it's a way to get in a similar zone, especially if you're by yourself. I feel like drawing requires so much presence, even more so, or in a different way than writing requires because you get in more of a flow, in my experience, but you're also... You have to pay so much attention and especially if you're drawing like a specific subject. I think that's why I found drawing my students so therapeutic. I think a great exercise is like find a picture of someone you love or someone or even just someone who has an interesting face and like really try to draw their face. um or or something i don't know i think there's something about just being forcing yourself to really pay attention right now and it doesn't have to be if you just don't want to pay attention to the news for an hour or or think about um because i find that my even if I'm feeling like I want to be creative, sometimes it creates this anxiety because my ideas are like lightning bugs. They're like just flying all around and I can't catch them, you know? But I think there's something very grounding about drawing and having to like pay attention and probably even more so if it's not your practice. I know I hadn't drawn for a long time and it, just puts you in a different headspace. So I don't know if that's a great answer to the improv question, but it's something that has put me in a similar flow that I remember improv really creating for me.
Trenton ReynoldsSo I guess that's my answer. That's a great suggestion.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWell, thank you, Hannah.
Thank you, Hannah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThanks, guys. This was really fun.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, thanks for making time. It was great to meet you.
You too.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonMiss your face. Miss your face too. Bye. Bye.
Trenton ReynoldsThanks for listening. We'll be back next week.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonPlease help us grow our audience by rating us or writing a review on iTunes. To do that, you can use the link roominthetrees.com forward slash iTunes.
Trenton ReynoldsYou can follow us on Instagram at Sabrina Ward Harrison and at Trent Reynolds Art.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd check out the show notes at roominthetrees.com where you can also get in touch if you have any ideas you'd like to share.
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