Trenton ReynoldsExcuse the interruption. Before we get into this episode, I just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge that there's a lot going on right now with the COVID virus that's going around and all the anxiety that surrounds that. And there is no mention of any of that in this episode because it was recorded before all of this has happened. And I wanted to take a moment to say that we sincerely hope everybody's well and enduring this really dramatic time well. And our hearts and prayers are with you. And here is the episode. ♪
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThis is Room in the Trees, a podcast about living a creative life. Room in the Trees is hosted by Trent Reynolds and me, Sabrina Ward-Harrison.
Trenton ReynoldsShow notes including pictures, links, video, and more for every episode can be found at roominthetrees.com.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYou can follow us on Instagram at Sabrina Ward-Harrison and at Trent Reynolds Art. And now, here's this week's episode.
Mati McDonoughWell, we are so excited to have you in the house, matey rose, wabi-sabi. Yeah, same. Yes. I was telling Trent that I'm nervous and honored because this is like my favorite podcast. Oh! I love the depth that you go in about, you know, your art practice. I don't think there are other podcasts like that where you get really... detailed about what you're going through and then tangential at the same time. That's good.
And it makes me laugh.
Mati McDonoughYou never know what you're going to get. And I love the shout out about The Bachelor. Right?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSo, yeah, Maydee and I have this kind of secret, not even secret, but just we have a connection because we're one day apart in age. Our birthdays are one day apart. Right. And we also love The Bachelor. Not even so much watching it, just listening to recaps.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIn a slightly manic way.
Trenton ReynoldsI so wish I could be on some phone call where you guys are totally geeking out about what's going down with the. with the bathroom. You are here. Yeah. Let it begin. Let it begin. What's going on with pilot? Is it pilot Joe? Pilot Pete. Pilot Pete. What's going on with pilot Pete? I want you guys to give it to me, like give it unfiltered. Go as hard as you can.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOkay, we will.
Trenton ReynoldsLet's go deep pilot Pete for just a little bit here.
Okay.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat makes me so excited. I'm like sweating. Because we haven't spoken about it this year. We haven't been on the phone talking about it. But my gosh, we have so many ways. We can go in any direction. We can talk Victoria P. We can talk this whole Mady thing. We can talk the fact it hasn't been spoiled by Reality Steve yet.
Trenton ReynoldsOh, Reality Steve, that's right.
Mati McDonoughI love how you were talking about it last part, but just making the comparison to watching boxing or whatever it was. I remember. But just, I was noticing how my boyfriend was totally geeking out watching boxing and just relaxing during that. And I was like, yeah, it's the same.
Yeah. Yes.
Mati McDonoughWatching the women tell all.
Yeah. Goodness. Yeah.
Mati McDonoughI think they're too young. Yeah, this year. They haven't gotten to know any of them and they don't know themselves. And so I am so happy. You heard who the bachelorette is. Yeah, Claire Crowley. Yeah. Yeah. She's 38. Yep. She has been in many relationships. She knows herself. It's going to be good. Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSo she's so trendy. They rotate. They go between bachelorette, bachelor, bachelorette, bachelor. Season to season. And there's these, in between the two, there's bachelor in paradise, which is the summer season where all the people that got voted off or, you know, discarded show up in this like beach situation where everyone kind of. is incestuous and dates and you know it's this very but they're all doing it for social media
Mati McDonoughis the whole thing is disgusting but kind of honestly my least favorite because i think of their ages yeah yep it just seems really scattered and dramatic between them
Trenton ReynoldsYeah. So do you guys really good? Are you liking Pete? I mean, what about Pete? Does Pete, do you guys even really think about Pete that much? Is it, or is it more about like the, the competition between the women? Like, I think it's more about the women.
Mati McDonoughYeah. I mean, he seems like a nice guy, but there doesn't, he's not very interesting to me. What about you, Savannah?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, not interesting. The least interesting, I think, is also Colton, the last guy. But I'm just saying his name is so lame. That is so tremendously under, yeah, yeah.
Colton.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonFeels like a soap opera, Colton.
Mati McDonoughWell, I also think it's. changing because all of the girls, the women want to be Instagram influencers. And so there's a different... Yeah. It used to, I think, be a little bit more pure.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd now it's about fame. Did you watch it on Netflix? A great... The one that's the...
Mati McDonoughLove is Blind.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh, I watched Love is Blind for sure. Yeah.
Mati McDonoughFascinating. Yeah.
They...
Mati McDonoughSorry. No, this is great. Love is Blind. And they... talk to each other, don't see each other, and fall in love with each other, like, through a wall. Oh, dear.
Mm-hmm.
Trenton ReynoldsThis is like the Olympics of relationships, right? It's like, how can we... like put up some kind of tension surrounding relationship and make it impossible. And, and I mean, this is like relationship sports, right?
Mati McDonoughIt is. It's shameful to admit that you love the bachelor. And then when you find your kindred, it's so exciting. Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd what I love is that we're both like these professional full-time working artists that have so much stuff going on and like we've been struggling all this stuff and somehow we're like on my little windows off to kind of like decompress and like oh my god that
Mati McDonoughIt is such a beautiful pleasure and when I'm watching it, I have a smile from ear to ear. I'm so happy.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat's awesome.
Mati McDonoughYou know what I mean? Yeah. It's good times. Did you hear that they're having a senior's bachelor?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYes, yes, yes.
Mati McDonoughIs he out casting if you have a grandparent? Yeah. Or a parent, I guess. We're old enough. What am I saying?
Yeah.
Mati McDonoughMy mom could go on. Yeah, same. Well, my parents are married, but... Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, Sabrina, I think you should introduce Mady and give us a little background on how you guys know each other.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSo Mady and I met in Berkeley in San Francisco, right? Yes. Mady, I met you.
Mati McDonoughI have a serendipitous, I think I've told this story before, where I had found your book, my... ex-husband had your book he's a graphic designer and like a week after I was reading your book I saw that you had open studios in Berkeley let's give the context of what year this probably was when was that like 2000 it was early days yeah yeah 2002 maybe it was after yeah it was after 9-11 Maybe 2001. Because I went... Maybe it was 2002.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI moved back from New York City, so it would have to be 2002, yeah.
Okay.
Mati McDonoughBecause it was a small window right before my ex and I went to Mexico for six months. All right.
And...
Mati McDonoughSo I met you,
and...
Mati McDonoughIt was so incredible, just the timing of having your open studios and I had on a butterfly dress and you complimented it and I was like, oh my goodness, here's the artist. And I was just such a fan and it was such resonant work. And then the next week you had a class, a live class. And so I ended up taking it and it was super magical. We were on the grass writing and creating. I think you made some pasta salad.
Trenton ReynoldsI love that detail. Was there a dressing on the pasta salad? Do you remember? No.
Mati McDonoughLike the experience? Probably like ranch. I don't know.
It was good. It was classy.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI think it was, I would think it was like, I think it was probably. Olive oil? Yeah, olive oil. Lois Harrison recipe probably.
Yeah.
Mati McDonoughSo fast forward, I ended up having an art studio in the same space in Berkeley, probably 10 years later, and having a studio where then I ran classes. And it was totally inspired by that moment. And I co-ran the studio with another woman who had been in your class, Stephanie Renee, who was a photographer. I don't know if you got that whole connection. But super magic. And you were such a catalyst because I ended up going back to the California College of the Arts and just there were all these synchronicities. And then our birthdays.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. And then I ended up renting a studio in the studio complex in San Francisco that you lived you had your apartment in and it was just the coolest space. It was like this little secret. The way San Francisco is so cool that way where behind the doors, you know, you go through and then suddenly there's like a courtyard with all these funky little complex like studio spaces. You would have loved it, Trent.
Mati McDonoughOh my gosh. I went there last weekend and I was just looking around and I peeked in the window and they have the same color paint inside. Wow. It was so cool. In your old apartment? Yeah. Great color paint on the living room wall. It was called Love Affair. It was like this deep aubergine.
Mm-hmm.
Mati McDonoughbrown. It was cool. Anyway, they still have it. It was such a flashback.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonHad you guys painted that color?
Mm-hmm.
Mati McDonoughYeah, living with another artist, we painted all the walls. But yeah, in Sabrina,
there was...
Mati McDonoughlots of good times, but I remember you had like the most epic studio, right? Yeah. It was like such an installation and maybe a little bit of a fire hazard. I don't know. It was wild. Oh my God. I just remember going in and you'd be like, hey, can you help me? And you'd be like standing on like the edge of a gas million things scattered.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThose were some crazy times.
Mati McDonoughSome crazy times.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI was also at that point starting to go down and live along the Central Coast and be down. I was in my true living project. It was beginning and I was super passionate.
Mati McDonoughYeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was so exhilarating having you in that studio space. We shared it with a handful of other artists who are, it was such a great community. It was really inspiring to be there. It's called Compound 21. It still exists with different artists. And I remember one day there was a taco truck around the corner. Just like go get tacos.
Oh, I can taste them in here.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThere was a little hole in the wall. I don't think it was a truck, but there was one that was just literally a hole, like a little window in the wall on the road.
Mati McDonoughRight, where they had tacos. That's right. eyes and tongue. I just remember having like picnics in the courtyard.
Yes. It was pretty great.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd that was before social media.
Mati McDonoughIt was before social media. I miss that. I miss that just like, The lack of comparison.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, just being right where you were.
Mm-hmm.
Mati McDonoughI was getting really into spray painting over doilies during that time period. I would just spray paint over the doilies to make really cool patterns and get high off the fumes. Oh my God, I feel like I'm talking about like Woodstock.
Trenton ReynoldsIt totally feels like, yeah, reminiscing about.
Mati McDonoughThe Wabi Sabi days.
Trenton ReynoldsThey were great.
Mati McDonoughWe celebrated our 30th birthday together. That was so fun.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah. So, Maidie, I read on your website that you went back into art after not thinking that it was a practical direction? Or, like, how did you come-
Mati McDonoughI still don't feel very practical, but- I felt, and Sabrina was totally part of this path and inspiration, but I had been working at an art law firm. I was always, you know, I had taken, minored in painting in college the first time and just always worked for arts organizations. I mean, I was, I think, 26. So it wasn't like, you know, I'd done that much work, but I had been working at an art law firm and I got laid off because of the dot-com crash, the tech crash.
I was saying that,
Mati McDonoughword.com the other day to a late driver. He's like, excuse me. I was like, you know, I'm dating myself,
but, um,
Mati McDonoughyeah, I got laid off and I had six months living on unemployment. Um,
yeah,
Mati McDonoughwhere I started volunteering at art galleries and I had my first art show in that time period. And then, you know, met Sabrina and took her class and some other classes. I was really into kids' books at that time. So I was taking tons of kids' books and kids' book classes at UC Berkeley extension, and then went to Oaxaca, Mexico with my ex and built up my portfolio and came back and went to CCA and, and, waitress a lot during that time period. But yeah, it didn't seem practical, especially, you know, with all the student debt. And I think it's interesting, like at this time, I don't regret school. That was such a great experience. but at this time with social media, I don't know if it would be necessary, but at that time, it seemed like that was the only way to meet people and network and get into gallery.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThat is, that's interesting to think of that. One of the, one of the huge benefits or functions that, that going to college provided is, was network, right? Yeah. It's becoming even more practical now to not make that be your primary source of connecting with people, right?
Right.
Trenton ReynoldsThat seems like it's probably one of the reasons why people aren't as intense about going to college.
Mati McDonoughI think you're right. There's this whole digital economy. Trent, you got your MFA, right? Yeah.
I did.
Mati McDonoughAnd was that around, was that before Instagram?
Trenton ReynoldsYep. Man, when did I graduate? I think I graduated in 2006 or 7.
Mati McDonoughYeah, that's the same time period I was in school too.
Trenton ReynoldsSo yeah, definitely before social media. And I can't even imagine, I'm trying to place social media back into my experience there. It would be so different.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsI had a fantastic experience. I'm totally glad I went.
Mati McDonoughRight. There's still value in art school. I just, I mean, I feel grateful for that time and space and growth, but I do, I am still paying those loans and that's kind of hard.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhen I think about being in art school, like that, that being, I'm so grateful because we just were right in, the experience with our teachers and our fellow students and, you know, and our references were mostly historical art. The artists were maybe from a generation before us or really wasn't, it wasn't this comparing thing. And I felt like I, just on the history level, really learning things in the context of history versus just this immediacy of really like education that really sunk in deeply. Right.
Trenton ReynoldsThat's a really interesting point. I hadn't thought about that students now with the accessibility to so much imagery, that their points of reference, their inspirations aren't the images from art history or ideas from art history. They're like looking at so-and-so's Instagram feed looking for... Yeah. For inspiration. You know, where I, I don't know, I had the fortunate opportunity to go and walk through a museum when I was looking for, you know, inspiration. That's interesting. So their foundation and their, I guess, yeah, point of reference, I think is the right word for it, is, does not have that history. Or it seems like it would anyway.
Mati McDonoughYeah. Those days were just delicious to be in, for me, in art history classes and just... Oh, yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsMayde, you had this big life change, lost your job, and so it was kind of a natural time to try something new. At that point, did you consider yourself an artist or was or do you even now consider yourself an artist? It wasn't an evolution.
Mati McDonoughIt was definitely an evolution. And I think in the beginning, I remember that gallery that I volunteered at and then was, you know, they gave me a show.
Yeah.
Mati McDonoughAnd that definitely felt like this coming out period of like, I am an artist and then going back to school. And I think that's a common phase. Did you guys go through that where you feel like you're claiming being an artist? But I had always been an artist, but that felt very empowering to me.
Trenton ReynoldsI think it's hard for a lot of people to know, to feel like you got that kind of imposter syndrome where you feel like you're not the real deal. Right.
Mati McDonoughIt's hard to think back to that because it's been so long now. But I remember at the beginning saying I was an artist felt really scary.
Yeah.
Mati McDonoughAnd it's helpful to remember, especially as a teacher, that other people are going through that and- It's our job to help them to usher that inner artist out.
Trenton ReynoldsThat is, there's something there that I want to poke at a little bit. Like as teachers of art, you know, part of our identity, I guess, or I think what Sabrina does really well and maybe I would say guess this is something that you do well as well, just looking at your website, is to start to help people create a sense of identity as an artist or as a creative person, right? A lot of people come to art workshops, I imagine, looking for somebody to give them permission to own that or to become that or to adopt that identity. Have you guys experienced that?
Mati McDonoughYeah, I feel like Sabrina... such a pioneer in helping other women in particular to like come into their own and claim their voices. And I remember in particular your workshop where you had us do a lot of writing exercises, which I feel like is such a great way to kind of tap into your inner artist and writing lists of memories from childhood and, um, yeah. So I think in my classes, I try to build the framework so that people can tap into their unique voices instead of just mimicking what I'm doing. And there are ways that I do that, like using my painting classes, like little prompts that are like, use your non-dominant hand or... use like a make small marks with a small brush or use a big brush or use white or whatever the thing is but like ways to respond to your own art, I think it's really helpful because you see a lot of people taking classes and then their work just looks like the teacher and that's okay, especially in the beginning, right? To do that, but then I think it's really At least personally, it's really exciting when I feel like I've made something that's unique and hasn't been. Probably everything has been done, but.
Trenton ReynoldsI think people can kind of sense that, you know, when they're mimicking somebody else, that it's not their own, you know, that they haven't owned it. And when they finally make something that they do feel is honestly theirs, there's a lot of power in that. That's a very empowering thing.
Mati McDonoughRight. They're expressing their voice. And yeah, I think Sabrina, you and I probably work in a similar manner that's very spontaneous and reacting with different things. And yeah. Yeah, I almost like to set up situations in my studio where I am reacting to something versus, like, using, you know, my painting as a palette so then that I can go back and react to it. Yeah, yeah, totally. Like a way in. or like lately, this sounds really trippy. I put this on Instagram, but I have been working outside. I have a little studio that's a little studio shed that's in the woods and, you know, leaves were falling on my paintings and pebbles were getting on them. And I was like, that's really good. And I felt like I was co-creating with nature. Like, thanks.
Yeah.
Mati McDonoughThat composition is rocking. Yeah, I love that.
Mm-hmm.
Mati McDonoughbut having it out of my hands even more.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd I feel like you really appreciate the light that way when you're working with light and sunlight and not coming through your work.
Mati McDonoughRight. And it's a real observation of time and time. creating and like you could never make that same painting a half an hour later right the light would be different inspiration would be different you would be different one thing i really
Sabrina Ward Harrisonappreciate and i've loved about matey is that she's been someone who's an example of where she really is so open and supportive and encouraging of other female artists and you just have been. It's just very moving how over the years how you've been. You just really celebrate and encourage the women around you, the contemporary other contemporary artists and that's when other people can cling so tightly to their own work and their own stuff and don't want to just are so afraid of losing it or losing their something you've been an open-armed about that did you did you always have
Trenton Reynoldsan intention to to try to teach or to connect to people in that way I didn't
Mati McDonoughstart teaching online until I had scarcity as my motivation because I was encouraged that teach online and I was like it wasn't something I wanted to do but I just found through a divorce and I just I was rock bottom to the point where I had to borrow my sister's credit card to send a newsletter about my class. You know, I was like, OK, I have to do this. I feel really shy. This is not something natural that I would be recording myself on film for the world to see. Right. Because most artists are introverted, right? So it got really dire. And then I launched a class based on my my first class. painting book called Daring Adventures in Paint. And the next day, 100 people signed up. And then like a week later, it was like 300 people had signed up. And so I think I had cultivated over time without realizing it, an audience through social media and my newsletter. Yeah, it just, it was amazing. Suddenly I had, you know, $35,000 in my bank account and I was able to like live. And after six months of grieving, it was really pivotal. So sometimes things have to get really hard before you do something that is really brave. And so it wasn't necessarily a natural fit, but I do, I love collaborating and I love people and I feel fed by that work also and feel like it, I always, I'm sure you guys can talk about this too, but I always feel like I learn so much when I teach art retreats from the other students too and feel energized by that.
Trenton ReynoldsDid you start doing art retreats shortly after that, shortly after you started teaching classes? Yeah.
Mati McDonoughWhen did that start? Well, I had taught some in the U.S. and then that had been organized by other people. And then I did one in Italy with my friend, who you know, Kelly Ray. And then I was talking to a friend I had met at a retreat at the Squam Arts Retreat in New Hampshire, and she had asked if I wanted to teach in Costa Rica, and it was just like a clear, like, hell yes, let's do it. And so that's where we started organizing art retreats. This will be our seventh in Costa Rica and four in Morocco and one in Mexico. That's awesome. But it's been really wonderful to be able to organize it and have, you know, pretty much dream up what our ideal itinerary would be.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsSo of all these things, what do you think is the most filling of them? The travel, connecting with other people, being able to teach, making your own artwork?
Mati McDonoughI think making my own artwork is the thing. I was just having this conversation with my boyfriend who was like, you need to do something that's scalable, like the online classes. Because I've been in the studio a lot painting. And I was explaining like the painting fills me up to do everything else. Like I can't. I can't get excited about teaching painting if I'm not, don't have a strong practice myself. You know what I mean? So that is definitely the key to making it all work. Right.
For sure. Do you relate to that?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonNot right now in my life. I think there's been a shift.
Mati McDonoughYeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI think that I literally think I made so much art that my body's like, can't do it. Partly. No, no. I just made so much work and I, I mean, a lot of work. And I feel like there's been a shift, a natural, peaceful shift into being more of a mentor, guide to others and help. I'm like, I don't want to see more of my stuff. I need to look at, I want to see other people's work. So I think it's, it's helpful for me even because I don't feel I'm competing with myself. at my work versus my artwork versus my teaching. So I think, yeah, I think I try not to judge it and like thinking I should be creating. I'm like, you know, I fucking shouldn't be. Right. Making out with Sean is what I should be doing.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI was going to say, there's other things. Yeah. Riding on a motorcycle. riding a motorcycle or something. So, no, I think that that's just... And I think that's natural after 20 years of it. You know, and we'll probably all be in phases, too. There'll probably be a phase, you know, a year and a half from now where we're all... start to want to be creating something big and maybe do a film or collaborate on some
Mati McDonoughinstantly i don't know what i don't know what but absolutely there are seasons yeah yeah for sure
Trenton Reynoldsum i think i think our relationship to art changes too like it it serves different purposes at different times in our life. Like I think right now art is, is definitely something that feels essential to me to kind of ground myself, you know, whereas, whereas in the past it was, it felt more like intellectually stimulating, like something that was a pursuit of improving myself. And there have been times in my life where I felt like it was more a way to connect with other people. And like it, you know, it's a tool, it's an avenue, it's a way to kind of, you know, meet your needs at different points in your life.
Absolutely.
Mati McDonoughI feel like for me, it's very weather contingent, maybe because my studio is half outside. It's like 100 square feet, it's tiny, and then I open up the doors, I have the yard. So the weather has been strangely beautiful. And so that has made me want to create a lot. But when it's cold and raining out, I don't feel like it.
Trenton ReynoldsDo you have books? Yeah, I'll let you take that.
Mati McDonoughI have a couple of painting books. The one I mentioned, Daring Adventures in Paint. And then I have e-courses. based on those and I'm running one again right now Daring Adventures in Abstract Paint and I just I feel like the energy of seeing people's paintings and all that has been filling me up from the classes lately which is exciting and And yeah, I have a bunch of classes. Another one is a watercolor class called In the Flow. And it's taught with my friend, Faith, who I teach the art retreats with. And during the art retreats, we started experimenting more with watercolor because it's like lighter instead of bringing huge suitcases full of canvases and acrylic. And it would explode. And so we're like, let's try this. using watercolor and people really ran with it and we started doing these watercolor warm-ups which were basically you know taking in when we're in Morocco the colors of the rooftop in Morocco and I'm using my hands but like just doing stripes of color and we're still doing mixed-media and other things at that time but then we realized how much people were getting out of the watercolors and how it was great because it was unconventional. It wasn't the normal, you know, landscape watercolor, the fussy layering process. It was really just like capturing the local color. So that's been something that we have a class called In the Flow. It starts in April.
Trenton ReynoldsSo coming up, you've got a lot, that's a lot going on.
Mati McDonoughYeah. I feel like that's a practice that when I do it too, it feels very meditative and it's just like a good, if I only have 15 minutes to make something, it's a good way to do that. But yeah, I was saying this earlier, but I feel like Trent, if you have an idea for an online class, I want to see that happen.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsI have a bunch of ideas. I think I get overwhelmed really easily just thinking about how to pull it off, how to frame it correctly, how to get it.
Mati McDonoughWhat was it, Sabrina, that helped you pull the trigger on it? Mine was destitution.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, I think you were so helpful with just encouraging me like it can be done. I mean, it was daunting to me for some. six, seven years, I think when I realized I could just make it my own random way. I think you encouraged me to, like, just do your way. It doesn't have to be this official – you're teaching this specific technique, you know, and how to – you know, evoke. And so my challenge was how do I translate the evoking, inspiring in a natural way through.
Mati McDonoughAnd you, and that's what people want is they want to connect with the way you do it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mati McDonoughWhat would you want to teach, Trent?
Trenton ReynoldsI just love exploring new materials and messing around with how different materials can interact with each other and how different techniques can build on each other. So I think a mixed media course generally and then some smaller, more specific courses about specific media, you know, like you know resin or oil painting or acrylic whatever the case may be just a gold mine
Sabrina Ward Harrisonin there I was thinking today about you Trent with your courses I'm like just start and then start and then find out each week as you go like what like start with everyone in room in the trees who wants to take Trent's course and we'll all be like yep me and sign up and then just week to week and we find out what you know you teach
Mati McDonoughmore about the next week. Right. And you are a teacher by profession and seem like you have deep knowledge. And I think there's a hole there, like at least in the e-courses I've seen where people have knowledge, but not like in specific techniques, like resin, for example, like that sounds awesome. Like, and I think you could really fill a niche. Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThey can teach it well, not just know about it, but be able to really teach it about it. They're like, yeah, I work with resin. I'll do a course about it, but they don't really know how to be a teacher.
Exactly.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd I think Trent's ability to give feedback, and I think a course that was involved really with student involvement would be so great.
Trenton ReynoldsThat would be fantastic. And Mayte, I think there's something to this idea that you have to hit a breaking point of some kind to push you over that final little bit of resistance.
Mati McDonoughRight. To get over yourself and realize it's not going to be perfect, especially you're saying you are very technical and you know it could be even better. But I think each time you run the course too, you have the ability to... iterate and make it better too. So it's just getting the first course out. Like you've done that, right, Sabrina? You're running another course. You figure out how you like to do it best.
Yep.
Mati McDonoughLiberate. Yep. Liberate 2.0.
Trenton ReynoldsIt's so interesting to hear you guys talk about, you know, you just got to get that first one out. Yeah. These are ideas that I've taught in art classes as long as I've been teaching art. It's the same concept where it's like you just got to get started. You just got to get over whatever that barrier is in your mind that keeps you from creating or at least just putting one foot in front of the other. So intellectually, I understand that principle, but for some reason in this... particular context, you know, it's like such, it's so hard for me for some reason.
Mati McDonoughCould you have someone video you while you're teaching, when you're naturally teaching a class?
Trenton ReynoldsI've tried that, but yeah, yeah, didn't. work out so well. I think, I think, I don't know, I don't want to make this about me, but I think, you know, it's, it, the more I watch like what Sabrina has done and what other people have been able to accomplish online, it's The more I can, I'm starting to recognize like things that resonate with me and what I would like to accomplish with my teaching in terms of like an attitude or a personality. Yeah. And how that can be communicated via, you know, video or audio, whatever the case may be. So I, I don't know. I feel like I'm, I'm getting to the point, but yeah, like, like I said, that's just that last little. a little bit of resistance.
Mati McDonoughWell, I'll be listening to the podcast, but I want to like, yeah, just support you. I know. I think we just.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, and, and with all sincerity, I think, thank you both for saying that because I, I think I definitely have some inner voices that, um, you know, that tell me that, you know, nobody's going to be interested in that, you know, nobody wants to, you know, we all have those voices, right? The suspicion or the fear that nobody's going to show up. So it's good to get that somebody actually hearing a voice say that I'm interested.
Mati McDonoughEvery time I do a new course, I have that same voice. It's less, but it's still there. And it's similar to every time, if I haven't painted in a while, like when I see a blank canvas, I feel like, ah, I don't know if I have anything to say. Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsSo we've talked a lot of, we've talked about the stuff that you're involved with, the classes, the books, the trips, the... And I just want to talk about The Bachelor.
Mati McDonoughThere's the truth.
Trenton ReynoldsBut before we jump back into The Bachelor, we haven't talked about your personal artwork. What kind of art do you make? Yeah. What are you excited to, what kind of medium do you use? Yeah.
Mati McDonoughWell, I talked about watercolor, but also acrylics are my jam. I love how they dry so fast and can layer up. And just the vibrancy of the colors and... I'm looking around my studio and I have 100 paintings going. Yeah, I love abstraction. And I think back when you and I shared a studio, Sabrina, I was doing all that work. And then it sort of morphed. Because I had this passion for children's books, I was doing that. And then I had a licensing and illustration agent, Lilla Rogers Studio, for seven years and was doing a lot of commercial work. And now I've come back and I'm doing more work for the e-courses, but also just for myself and myself. hopefully, you know, for the world at large. I definitely have pivoted a lot based on, you know, so many factors, but like what's feeding me both financially and just what I'm excited about. And currently that's, abstraction and the bachelor and the bachelor yeah abstractions based on the bachelor that
Trenton Reynoldswould be good based on oh you guys have to do that i would love to see like a both of you do a series you know based on based on the bachelor that would be so i know you have to go sabrina uh matey do you want to Give us any words of wisdom as a sign off.
Mati McDonoughWhat can I say? I don't know. This has been, thank you. I've arrived now that I've been on Room in the Trees.
That's right. I love it.
Trenton ReynoldsYay. Thank you, Manny. Thanks for making time.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThanks for being such an awesome friend and woman and artist and contemporary.
Trenton Reynoldsoh thank you I look forward to meeting you in Madison, Wisconsin see you on the dance floor yes definitely
Sabrina Ward Harrisonthanks for listening we'll be back next week in the meantime you can follow us on Instagram at Sabrina Ward Harrison and at Trent Reynolds Art
Trenton Reynoldsand check out the show notes at roominthetrees.com where you can also get in touch if you have any ideas you'd like to share
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Trenton ReynoldsPlease help us grow our audience by rating us or writing a review on iTunes. To do that, you can use the link roominthetrees.com forward slash iTunes.