Trenton ReynoldsThis is Room in the Trees, a podcast about living a creative life. Room in the Trees is hosted by Sabrina Ward-Harrison and me, Trent Reynolds.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonShow notes including pictures, links, video, and more for every episode can be found at roominthetrees.com.
Trenton ReynoldsIf you like this podcast, please consider showing your support. You can become a subscribing patron at patreon.com forward slash room.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd now here's this week's episode.
Hi. Hi.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonHi.
Hi.
Trenton ReynoldsHere we are on a Tuesday afternoon. It's been a while since we've recorded on Tuesday, hasn't it?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt has. It feels like so in the schedule kind of.
Trenton ReynoldsDo you feel like you're more scheduled? Do you have a calendar? Do you write things down? Is it an electric calendar or is it a physical calendar?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's a paper one that's like a big date book. But it's set for people that have back-to-back-to-back all day long, and I don't really have it quite like that. But yeah, I do have a... calendar and then Sean got me a big one. I need, I just need the visual. I need to see the whole month really big. And there's some, uh, tool store that gives away these really big calendars that I saw at his house. I thought I want one of those. So what about you with your calendar? What's your tracking?
Trenton ReynoldsWell, you know, like for a long time, I found the easiest and just like the least stressful was to print out a weekly calendar just from the calendar application on my laptop. I tried to do it on computer, but then... I just never could be consistent with it. And I think like you, I really liked the visual and I like to be able to underline and put in bold and put like a little cloud around something, ways to kind of communicate visually. Yeah. But then, then when it like became like both Laura and I, and trying to merge our schedules and like, After a couple years of just us both missing big events on each other's calendars, we just had to force ourselves to use the electronic calendar. We use Fantastical, a combination of Fantastical and then just the Mac OS calendar.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh, so what's Fantastical? Yeah.
Trenton Reynoldsannotate where I could like draw on it or do something like add images. Cause I wanted to be able to like be able to look at it and have more visual indication and a busy Cal had the ability to add like little icons and, and stuff, but it was kind of clunky. Anyway, I would love to have a calendar app that felt more like, um, the old analog calendar.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, and this whole... I know, and I think there's continually... People are trying to figure out ways to organize. Because I'm always thinking, how can I visually... I need to visually see, like, as I'm thinking about a project that's maybe 90 days out, how can I visually friggin... see the whole thing and see the steps and break stuff down into like, okay, this is this week's goal. And I like to cross things off also. Like I don't want to just have like the feeling of like done. This has happened. This is done.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah. There's something about, yeah, like having a, something in the real world that, I don't know, I guess this is a recurring theme on the podcast is, you know, like just the physicality of things, importance of like understanding things, not just in your mind conceptually or like as a thought, but finding ways to interact with information in the real world, like crossing things off, underlining, creating like colors and. I don't know. I think there's something just how I process, how I understand even what I'm doing day to day. It helps me to have some kind of visualization of that. Do you schedule an art making time? No. I don't know. As we have this conversation, I'm realizing how much of... what I struggle with is related to my struggle in organizing my time and making borders around the things that matter the most. Because it can so easily just get chopped up into unusable pieces. Yeah. So, it's a hard thing to do. And I think people that are really productive and effective are really good, I think, maybe this is just an assumption I make, but are really good with calendaring and planning and organizing how they use their time.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd I agree, and I think that there's something about when you just stick, for me, that I kind of implement a bit more. It's like just sticking with the frigging plan. Like just, like say we were going to, like, for example, I'm trying to begin to start doing things like Facebook live and it's very easy to go. I don't feel up for it today. I don't feel like I'm, I'm on enough. I can be like, what if I just had to?
And,
Sabrina Ward Harrisonyou know, what if we had to record a podcast episode, like just sort of, or like art wise, like, Oh, I don't feel like I'm in that zone yet. And I was saying to my students, like, what if, you know, we just have to sort of get place, get the stage set and just start in so that whether we want to or not.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd then you kind of get there and you act until it's real.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, I think there's something to that. Steven Prescott in The War of Art talks a lot about that, about how the difference between when you go pro is the terminology he uses. But it's like you don't have to wait until you're in the mood. You just have to show up on time and do it every day or on schedule. And that's a process of training. I think you kind of train yourself to get into that habit. I don't know, and creativity seems like would follow that. It brings its own kind of creativity. I think the consistency and repetition of having that habit. Like these past few days, I've been feeling like the kids are sleeping better now. They're all in the same room. Like we have a fairly predictable like bedtime at seven o'clock and everybody's up, you know, by six, six 30. Yeah. and just that ability to kind of predict that in that system, and nobody's here until last night. The pattern was broken last night, so I kind of hate to say that hesitantly. But... That has just opened up all sorts of, like, it's created hope, I guess, you know, and it creates this space, you know, for like just bandwidth, mental bandwidth of being able to say, like, now I can see how there's a new, now that it's possible to do all this stuff that just felt so impossible before. Yeah. When we're talking about scheduling and stuff like that, recently I've been feeling a lot more hopeful about pulling out of this feeling of just being blown out, having no extra space for anything other than just survival.
Sabrina Ward Harrison- Oh, I'm so happy to hear that.
Trenton Reynolds- Yeah, it's been a really good feeling this past probably week or two.
Sabrina Ward Harrison- So much hats off to Laura for all that. She's so, she's an incredible mother. - She is. - You're an incredible dad, and she's an incredible mom.
Trenton Reynolds- That's one of the hardest things about being in a two bedroom apartment with four kids is like, there is no space, and my sacred space is, is the bathroom in the morning. I've got the shower running, so there's kind of white noise. - Yeah. - Right, and I'm by myself and nobody else is awake. But recently my kids have been even taking that from me. Zoe, our youngest, our baby. She'll start just pushing things under the door, like magazine pages, anything she can pull off the side, like the bedside table. And then the other day she started feeding a, like a vacuum cord underneath the door. That is hilarious. They cannot leave me, you know, my little private space. Or they stick their fingers on just like wiggling underneath the door.
Oh my God.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, that might be a place to, or a conversation worth having. And that is like, especially now when we've got this permanent record online of our life, right? Like, it can become difficult to make a separation and make a, become a new person or person. kind of expand yourself or leave the last chapter behind and move on to something new, 'cause there's always this kind of record that is accessible by you and anybody else, right? - Right. - And I think for you, you've probably experienced this in your life more than most, I mean, you have a book, and lots of people love that book and start to identify with it and becomes like part of their, an important part of their formative years. And that's always going to be attached to you, right? So how do you... Five of them, too. Right. I know. Exactly. And maybe that's the way that you were able to do it is by writing another book, you were able to kind of say, this is the end of that part of my life and this is who I am now, right? But I think it's challenging. I feel that with my artwork as it's gone more abstract, like... And like, it's been a difficult, kind of a mind, you know, a tough state of mind change to make that, you know, even like I feel like a cheater or a traitor, like I'm not really an abstract artist, you know, for years and years and years, I did very representational stuff, you know. Right.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsSo it's just like, A, giving myself permission to be something new that I haven't been before and not feeling like I'm just – there's kind of a weight of legitimacy that comes with doing something for many years when you let go of that. it, you feel a little bit like you're not on solid ground because it's new territory for you and it doesn't have the weight of like experience and history. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah,
Sabrina Ward Harrisonyet we're so drawn in life to evolve and change and grow and try and explore and become, you know, more and more dimensional as people.
Trenton ReynoldsBut there are serious forces at play, both, I think, friends, family, jobs, identities as positions within jobs. There's so many things at play that try to force us back into the expected role that we've always played, not allowing us to try new things or to step away from an identity that we we've already had. I felt that especially strongly, I spent two years in the Philippines, and I had this life-changing experience, and for the first time, felt like I had kind of understood who I was, in a very real way. because I was so distant from my family, from my friends, from everything I knew. It was this moment where I was able to see myself independent of all that history and all I had been before. Right. And then I remember coming home, and then friends and family basically say, like, how was your trip? And it was like I'd been gone for five days when it had been such an impactful, like, mind-melting. Yeah. And they just start treating me like they've always treated me, you know, and it's so hard to not just slide right back into those familiar modes of behavior and communication. And it's frustrating because you feel like, wait a second, I know I'm not this person. I know I can be this. And I think that's probably the case with, I was thinking of my friend, Chris D'Elia. We were friends in high school. We were, I don't know, I think we were more than just acquaintances. We definitely hung out and we have lots of mutual friends. Yeah. We weren't super tight buddies, friends forever type deal. But then he started getting more attention with his stand-up and then TV and movies and stuff like that. But I imagine people that get that kind of celebrity and that kind of recognition, it's probably not too dissimilar from going to a completely different country. And having this huge transformation, you know, and becoming just having this different side of them expressed and developed and just not feeling like they know how to come back and be that person they were before that experience. You know what I'm saying?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonRight, right. And people don't really let them because they're looked at differently and they can't control that. Exactly.
Trenton ReynoldsYep. And then, you know, they're trying to perpetuate the success and there is this kind of self-reinforcing process where they can't break out of that mold that they've created for themselves and that people want them to stay in. I don't know. I think that macro scale, that large scale process, I think happens on a much smaller scale just day to day. There's so many ways that we get ourselves into ruts and there's so many good excuses to not... move or change or evolve or let go of, you know, whatever weight is holding us down.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd I think when it comes to artwork, art making, that can be something where, um, yeah, the vulnerability of letting things be different and like going, well, I always used to always collage with this stuff, or I always used to paint with this kind of brush and, I admire that so much about your creative evolution has been to just to be that vulnerable side of exploration of like, I, you know, cause you're really, really, really good at, at representational, beautiful work. And then, um, which, um, Like I, for one, I'm entirely inept at to say, you know, I'm going to explore this other. This is kind of what is exciting in a new territory.
Trenton ReynoldsI wonder if you've seen this in your workshops. In fact, I imagine you have is like where you see somebody, um, And you can imagine the internal dialogue. Like, I'm not somebody who does this. I'm not somebody who takes a nasty paintbrush that is slobbery and throws it at the paper. I'm not that person. But then you see them do that. And it's like they break through this barrier that was entirely fictional, that was entirely of their own making. And it's like this world of possibility opens up. I guess that's the kind of thing that just is the most wonderful thing to see as a teacher, is to be able to see when somebody realizes... that this whole thing is there that, that can be them if they choose it, you know, that they have this potential to become this new thing.
I don't know.
Trenton ReynoldsI feel like I'm talking in very kind of like language, but yeah, No. But it is such a, you know, so, so exciting to see somebody, you know, realize that what they really desire is right there. You know, it's just, it was a decision away. It was like, no, I'm not gonna organize everything to death and I'm gonna take this pencil and break it in half. Like I could have done that any day I chose. Right. But that little bit of like just breaking a pattern or breaking, I don't know, I'm saying the same thing over and over again. I know the original, my intention there was to ask you a question is like, how does that, does a similar experience happen to you in your workshops? And I guess that's kind of a rhetorical question because I think it obviously- Oh, it's my favorite part. It's like,
Sabrina Ward Harrisonlet me free you. Let me free you. You know, like loving to see, I think so many people come to my workshops who are really wanting that liberation of of setting, like setting themselves free. And so my whole calling is, is in that area of, of helping that facilitate that happening. There's such gratification in seeing that those little shifts happening. They're really small. Like someone will come in and say, I, I don't want to get peanut and I want to use gloves and, And yes, of course, there's like, oh, you shouldn't use certain get paint on your hands. But like, come on. Also, there's a part that's like the way kids, you know, if you're working with temper paint and you've got, you know, you've got temper paint on your hands, like it's OK. Like kids play with play with paint on their hands. And so, but seeing them like not having their gloves on, like letting them take their gloves off midway through and just get their hands covered in paint and just seeing their faces light up. And then they're suddenly barefoot in the paint and they're just, I see this sort of deep breath happen and their shoulders kind of drop down. And I can just picture it in my mind, different times, different people have had those moments, you know, in their own way.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward Harrisonand I feel it for myself even as a teacher there's a part that wants to think I have to kind of I want to teach it well I want to teach it and teach them everything and then there's like when I can get into my flow and I'm just shooting from the hip and in my element and being my weird self and dancing a little bit there's such a, there's a euphoria that can hit right then that I love. For sure. But it comes by way of being vulnerable and not knowing where it's going to go.
Definitely.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonHow it's going to get there and what it's going to look like.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, there's this wonderful virtuous cycle that happens. Like when somebody hits that point, that energy is reflected back on you. And I think the excitement that that brings or the kind of empowerment that brings to you as a teacher is, then allows you to open up and achieve a level of vulnerability or transcendence or like whatever word you want to use. But it's just this energy goes back and forth. I think that's one of the most powerful things about teaching is that both student and teacher are… are lifted. That is one of the things that I feel like I've had from the start. I feel like that's one of the things that I'm here to learn from you because I feel like it's something that you do so well. It's something that I admire about you and something that seems, I'm not going to say that you didn't work hard to get to that level, but it's something, like you said, I feel like it's It's what you're here to do, you know, and I don't know. I think you have a certain I don't know. There's something about your nature that is especially suited to that I feel like that is part of the reason that I'm part of this conversation is to is to learn that from you. So
Appreciate you. Yeah
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWell, and it's, as I think about as technology changes, technology grows and changes and I, more and more people are, you know, say teaching something on Facebook Live or putting themselves into a situation where they're, you know, teaching publicly to people that aren't necessarily teachers. you know, students that have signed up for a class, but you're just offering something out there. And I, you know, I've been wanting, I've been wanting to, since last month, I wanted to do this called, it's like spilling, spilling open stories of just telling it page by page of the book, like this backstory of how I created the piece, the page, and maybe a little anecdote because I remember making each one of them. And I kind of overthink it, and I think, okay, well, I'll film it first, and then edit that, and then I'll transcribe it, and I'll make it an Instagram post. I'm like, oh, my gosh. You know, and then I think, well, there's not enough about that page that I can – explain and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think just so then I think of some new plan. I'm like, all right, I'm just going to open the book and whatever page that is, I'm just going to tell something about that page. So I think that might be the way to go. But it is when you teach in a fluid way of not necessarily having like this is the exact thing. exactly what I'm going to talk about. This is a demo I'm going to do or something. It's, it's sometimes, and I just have to get used to it. It's just stepping into like, I don't know how it's going to go. Don't know what I'm going to exactly talk about, but I got to just do it because ultimately at the end, I feel good. I feel great that I did.
Um,
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh, but I could just talk myself right out of it so easily. Yeah. Even though all the people that are watching are lovely, great people for the most part, I imagine.
Trenton ReynoldsI wonder if there's not a connection to this and what we were talking at the beginning with calendars, though, is that I think there's a tension between... This desire to organize and create a container of time. As much as I love containers, that is kind of contrary to creative process. You can't force something like... like you can't plan it. It's just gotta happen, right? Like to a certain degree, creativity can't be scheduled. As much as I do think, you know, just like you were saying, you do need to create habits of showing up and working, right?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI, the, the, the, the balance between thinking about it and thinking, God, I really want to do this. And then the feeling of having it just done and just doing it. I think that like I could have. thought out Liberate last year as I created it and thought, oh, I could spend another year working on it or something. It's like, you gotta just put it out there. You gotta just start teaching. So that sense of a calendar has been really effective.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, I think you're absolutely right. I wonder though if it's like Oh, goodness, I think there's something so important in that, you know, when you're in the moment of being creative, like whether it's scheduled or not scheduled, like you're there, right?
Right.
Trenton ReynoldsThe thought of then trying to contain that, you know, to try to plan that or like, okay, I'm going to do this again on Tuesday at 4 o'clock. like there's something just, I believe that that kind of fights between those two things. Yes. And I think, and so I'm just saying like innately, like part of the joy of the process is that spontaneity. And I think as creatives, like we kind of fight to have to, you know, I guess be grown up about it and put it on the calendar. Yeah. Yeah, but I know we have to, it's the grown-up part.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, like we have to schedule time to be maybe spontaneous. Like if I know that I have to, like every time I taught live last year, I was super nervous and thinking, I can't, I can't, I can't. But then I'm doing it and I'm doing it and afterwards I'm like high-fiving Megan, like we did it. It was great. awesome and I feel great that I did, but only because it was scheduled and people were going to be there waiting for me to jump online and be there. And I was always so glad I was, I mean, obviously I was going to be there, but like in my introverted part, that thought I can't do it. It was like afterwards, it felt really good that I did. So.
Yeah. Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThere is power in structure, power in planning. Yes, there's power in structure. And committing and fulfilling those commitments, I think.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIf you were to see me, if you were to want to see me teach, what would you like to see? If you were to, if I was to do a demo about something, is there something you'd picture?
Trenton ReynoldsWhat I feel like I've drawn or been most interested in over the years of our conversations is hearing about... the stories of like the time when you were in that, uh, in, in, I think it was Manhattan or Brooklyn or somewhere on the, on like a rooftop and you brought everybody, it was this little apartment and like those moments of spontaneity and, um, and how you were able to turn that into something that was invigorating and, uh, and freeing for the people that were involved. Oh yeah. There are so many different examples of that and so many different stories that have been told over the course of our conversation that, um, I think I would, I would like to have kind of like the, you know, when, when we did, um, um, you know, we're here and this is happening, you know, and we're going to.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonInteresting. Cause I filmed, I document so much with video. So I have all this, all this film footage of it that here, I should sometimes I like it pulled out a little bit last year to transfer. And it was just hilarious. Like the adventures filmed and maybe I would love one day to make a documentary or, or some series of stories.
Trenton ReynoldsOh, I'm sure there's just a mind of stuff that you could put together. I don't know, that might be an interesting series of short videos that you could do. It wouldn't necessarily have to be one long piece. Right. they are random they are I've seen blips
Sabrina Ward Harrisonyeah dirty videos no just like the camera was always dirty and there's all you know but that made it cool
Trenton Reynoldsyeah so uh what's on the calendar for this week
Sabrina Ward Harrisonwhat's on the calendar let me look at it
Trenton ReynoldsCan I ask you what brand of what the brand name is on the calendar? Yes. What store did this come from?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonMy therapist had and I got the one she had.
It is.
Trenton ReynoldsOh, I thought this was the one Sean gave you. Is this not the one?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh, that one. Yes, let me go. This one I have is the 2019-2020 Academic Essential Daily Planner.
Trenton ReynoldsAcademic Essential Daily Planner.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYes, let me go grab the other one and tell you what it is. It is the AFS Advanced... Fastening Supply Incorporated.
Trenton ReynoldsYes! I'm going to look that up right now. Advanced Fastening Supply.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonF-A-S-T-E-N-I-N-G. Fastening Supply. Fastening Supply Incorporated.
Trenton ReynoldsOh, this is such a place that I would love to go. Really? Yeah, I love hardware stores. What does it show? It shows all sorts of fasteners. By category. Adhesive, sealants, caulk, foam. Oh, yes.
Yes.
Trenton Reynoldsgrinding, cutting, drilling letters. I love it all. That makes me happy you've got a calendar. An AFS calendar. Well, you're set. Yeah, I am. You are set.
Well, cool.
Trenton ReynoldsYou got a busy week ahead?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, I'm going to schedule some painting time. Awesome.
Trenton ReynoldsAre you getting time to get in the studio? Are you making time for studio stuff?
I'm not.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonBut I just moved my work table out to my living room over the lake. So I had my studio in the back. Now I have... You know, just take over the lake room.
Awesome.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhat about you?
Trenton ReynoldsWell, I lasered some of the paintings. I'm kind of excited about it, actually. I'll have to send you a picture. Maybe I'll post it in the show notes if I remember. But I am actually looking at... I've been dabbling with this program on the iPad, and I know you're not doing too much on the iPad, but the program's called Forger, F-O-R-G-E-R. It's a sculpting app, which is just fantastic. I used it a couple years ago, and it's gotten so much better. Yeah. But if you're into digital sculpting, check out Forger. And then, so I finished a little sculpture today. It's just a little face that I did. And I'm gonna print it out on the 3D printer tomorrow and paint it. Something I've done, I've done something similar before, but this is the first time that I've done it from the iPad to the 3D printer. so I'm kind of dabbling with that. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonPlease help us grow our audience by rating us or writing a review on iTunes. To do that, you can use the link roominthetrees.com forward slash iTunes.
Trenton ReynoldsYou can follow us on Instagram at Sabrina Ward Harrison and at Trent Reynolds Art.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd check out the show notes at roominthetrees.com where you can also get in touch if you have any ideas you'd like to share.
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With a friend.
Trenton ReynoldsWith a friend. ♪