WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:16.500 This is Room in the Trees, a podcast about living a creative life. Room in the Trees is hosted by Trent Reynolds and me, Sabrina Ward-Harrison. 00:00:16.500 --> 00:00:25.300 Show notes including pictures, links, video, and more for every episode can be found at roominthetrees.com. 00:00:25.300 --> 00:00:35.320 You can follow us on Instagram at Sabrina Ward Harrison and at Trent Reynolds Art. And now, here's this week's episode. Hello. 00:00:37.540 --> 00:00:38.720 It's been forever. 00:00:39.800 --> 00:00:40.700 It's still even forever. 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:44.700 I know. It is 2020. That is crazy town, isn't it? 00:00:44.700 --> 00:00:46.060 Uh-huh. 2020. 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:48.720 It's been 20 years since 2000. 00:00:50.020 --> 00:00:51.360 That's so strange. 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:52.740 Two decades. Man. 00:00:52.980 --> 00:01:03.520 I think we started the conversation, I think, about five years ago. Because I had just moved to Madison this time. around this time five years ago. 00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:06.480 Five years. A lot has happened in five years. 00:01:06.820 --> 00:01:09.960 A lot has happened in five years. You've had about 15 children. 00:01:10.420 --> 00:01:11.540 Uh-huh. Yeah. 00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:13.280 Yeah. 00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:23.060 Uh-huh. Going strong. Going strong. We got new gear. Can we just jump right in right with the new gear? What did you get? 00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:36.000 Yeah. What do I have? I have a Logitech USB headset with... earphones and a little, like a mic that comes around the front of my face. 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:41.220 Yeah, I love that part. So it's like you're a jet pilot, right? 00:01:41.500 --> 00:01:46.300 Yeah, yeah. I feel like one actually right now. I feel I just need the suit. I just need the outfit. 00:01:46.300 --> 00:01:54.160 Would you be willing to put on your biker outfit and wear the headset? 00:01:55.020 --> 00:01:55.700 Ha ha ha. 00:01:55.700 --> 00:02:09.140 at the same time while recording. Or actually, I wonder if would the motorcycle have some kind of headphone jack where you could ride around with the headset? Yeah. 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:21.240 Yeah, there is that kind of there's like a Bluetooth thing that you can get where you can talk to the other rider through headset. 00:02:21.700 --> 00:02:30.560 But right now we don't have that. I'm enjoying the mental images of you in different situations with your headset on. 00:02:32.640 --> 00:03:02.420 The headset wouldn't look badass unless it had the helmet with it, I think, on the side of the motorcycle. I must say, though, I got the motorcycle boots at Harley-Davidson back in, well, you saw them. I was wearing them at the studio, your studio when we were filmed a few months ago. And I really like wearing them. I feel they're very heavy. And I walk in like, duh, duh, duh, duh. I like, it's just a decisive stepping. 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:07.760 You feel like you're a bigger presence on this earth. I think so. You've got some weight to throw around. 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:18.360 I totally have some weight to throw around. Yeah, yeah, it feels good. 00:03:18.540 --> 00:03:29.620 Well, I'm excited. You sound good. You sound the... there's less, you know, ambient noise. You sounded good before, but it definitely takes it up a notch. 00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:31.840 Well, it just wasn't professional, and here we are. 00:03:32.140 --> 00:03:33.300 We're totally done, Paul. It's a new year. 00:03:33.460 --> 00:03:35.080 It's a new professional level we're hitting. 00:03:35.740 --> 00:03:38.780 Yep. We've taken it to the next level. 00:03:39.700 --> 00:03:49.600 That makes me think about The Bachelor, which I have just, it's just this thing. It's the new season. And you may not know this about me. 00:03:49.600 --> 00:03:52.920 I never watched The Bachelor and didn't realize that you're a fan. 00:03:53.320 --> 00:05:21.880 Yeah. So I remember writing in Messy Thrilling Life this one thing about all the things on my mind that day. And one of them was watching The Bachelor. And little did I know way back then, probably like the second season of it, it would still be going on to this day today. And it's ridiculous. And I love the drama. I love reading the spoilers. I love reading about the fashion, like what people were wearing. It's so much of it. It's just not at all like... I don't know. I don't relate to so much of it, but I still just love it. And I have a couple of friends, Mady Rose. She and I have been talking about it for years. She and I both have that sort of guilty pleasure of the other day, Sean walked in of watching it. Sean watched it, walked in. I was reading one of the recaps, like the, the breakdown of the episode. Cause I don't even watch the episode. Well, I'll watch it the next day on Hulu, but like kind of have it on the background. I really just want to read the recaps, get all the spoilers, deep dive. And, uh, he came in and he's like looking on the iPad and he's like, I, I said, I didn't, I admitted, I'm like, I just kind of the secret thing. Um, about The Bachelor. And he's like, well, does it just, I would really love to not have to watch it with you. I, I kind of put my foot down there and I said, no, I would never even want to watch it with you. Cause it's something, it's so like embarrassingly like eating chips in bed or something. It's just this thing. 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:23.180 So, 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:31.500 Yeah, when you said the microphone, because this season is Pete, Pilot Pete is the bachelor. He flies for Delta. 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:35.000 Pilot Pete. Pilot Pete. 00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:40.840 He's the guy. Yeah. So that's just a little back story for the headset. 00:05:40.840 --> 00:05:50.800 So the drama, is it the... I don't know enough about the show to even know what the question is asked, but is it... What kind of drama is there? Is it... 00:05:50.800 --> 00:06:28.500 Well, supposedly they'll find a bachelor or bachelorette and they'll have them be in this big mansion and then they have these contestants, like 29 different women are there. They're beautiful. They come in and they're, you know, and so you get the bit of backstory and then you try to figure out who is going to be the front, who the front runners are, like who the top three who are going to make it. But then you do, but then there's this guy, Reality Steve, who's the guy who's been spoiling. Somehow his inside people, somehow they're inside that he always spoils it before the season even begins. He somehow knows who the winners are. 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:29.580 Oh, no. 00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:46.500 And it's never been able to be figured out. So there's this whole other side about, you know, do you read the spoilers ahead of time from reality, Steve? Sometimes, basically, I do. I do now. And then I, so I know all the drama ahead of time so then I can watch it strategically knowing what's going on. 00:06:46.500 --> 00:06:49.120 Like you know when the moments are going to, yeah. 00:06:50.900 --> 00:07:06.520 Yeah. So this one supposedly is unfigurable about who is the winner because somehow they've rigged it somehow that supposedly there's just no way you can figure it out. So we don't know if it's going to be live. Don't know, Trent. We just don't know. 00:07:06.520 --> 00:07:08.800 So reality Steve doesn't even know. 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:34.800 He doesn't know yet, so he can't... Yeah, he doesn't know. Because the ABC, the network, is always trying to squash Reality Steve, and they try to sue him. They just try to get him to... But he gets more and more publicity by way of... this guy coming in and you know spoiling it so it makes everyone then want to watch it even more to see if he was right right so yeah 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:39.240 so it's you know love hate thing with reality Steve 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:48.160 yeah and he's just this guy that lives in Las Vegas and sits around and And he hates the show. 00:07:51.540 --> 00:07:58.880 So did he like started off as kind of like a joke, but then he got a lot of interest and now he's like stuck in this. 00:08:01.440 --> 00:08:12.180 This hell of his own making. Yeah, but he makes so much money off of it from the advertising, I guess. But yeah, he's like a sports guy. So he can't stand the show. He hates the whole thing. 00:08:14.280 --> 00:08:17.340 Yeah. Oh, gosh. I'd love to talk to reality, Steve. 00:08:18.100 --> 00:08:33.840 Yeah. So anyone can DM me on Instagram if they're also watching and tell me what they think, if they read the spoilers, where they're at. So right now, I'm not going to give away any spoilers. I know who the top three are. 00:08:34.100 --> 00:08:41.700 You know for, like, you deduce this with your own powers of observation? 00:08:41.900 --> 00:08:46.340 Well, reality seems knows who the top, yeah, he knows who the top two are, so. 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:47.480 Okay. 00:08:48.460 --> 00:08:52.400 And you wouldn't want to say that here because. No, I don't think it would be fair. 00:08:52.400 --> 00:08:59.640 No. Not fair. So he's a very loyal, deeply loyal listeners to Room in the Trees and The Bachelor, so. 00:09:00.340 --> 00:09:00.840 Got it. 00:09:18.800 --> 00:09:23.300 they literally have grown up with it since they were infants. 00:09:24.040 --> 00:09:25.900 Oh my goodness. Isn't that weird? 00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:30.580 And will they say that on the show? Like, I've loved this show since I was... Since I was a toddler. 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:40.600 No, no. But when you start thinking about it, it's like, that's just... Oh, it's kind of disgusting. Oh. 00:09:41.580 --> 00:09:47.200 I remember that being one of the big successes of reality TV was 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:36.700 to add to my life is just so antithetical to the way I function. Right. I want less drama. I'm trying to think of what TV show I would reach for to... To fill my needs. Yeah. Anyway, I think it would be a very short and very boring TV show. 00:10:37.160 --> 00:10:41.540 Like a nature, like a really slow, slow-moving nature show maybe? 00:10:42.720 --> 00:11:56.060 Or, no, I mean, I think probably kind of stereotypically I would go for... Yeah, something with just senseless violence. Like if it was a nature show... Senseless violence. If it was a nature show, it would be like two male rams... head-butting each other for 30 minutes. Really? Really. Wham, wham. And that guy, then the ram loses and he has to walk off and the next one comes in. They just pound each other. Because I guess that's kind of what The Bachelor is in a way, right? Yeah. It's all these women duking it out in their own way. Yes, yes, yes. For dominance. But I guess maybe the male version of that is not drama. It's just beating each other up. Isn't that interesting? I will confess that I would watch that show if it was just like, you know, we've got 20 dudes here. And whoever leaves the ring, you know, he's the one that wins. And he gets the girl. I would find that entertaining. 00:11:57.380 --> 00:11:57.900 Wow. 00:11:57.900 --> 00:12:06.100 yeah maybe we should edit that out no that's awesome I don't know how I feel about that 00:12:06.100 --> 00:12:26.220 well I think that's really interesting because you think about why people like how it is that we as human beings are relaxed ourselves by watching things that are like aggressive like football or you know boxing wrestling um And it relaxes us. 00:12:26.740 --> 00:12:27.240 Yeah. 00:12:27.620 --> 00:12:28.880 It's strange. 00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:37.660 It is. That is strange when you put it like that because it is relaxing to watch, you know, a couple dudes beat each other up. 00:12:40.060 --> 00:13:26.960 It's so weird. I know. When I was in high school, I've got, you know, two good friends from high school that it was just always such a joy to watch them beat each other up. I mean, one would just, you know, be sitting in the backseat and the other one would be driving and the guy in the backseat would just reach around and smack the side of his head as hard as he could. Really? Who was that? And there was just this, you know, it was like a celebration of life in my heart when I saw him. I don't know what that is. I know it's, it does not speak well for, uh, you know, 00:13:27.020 --> 00:14:07.700 so then that could even lead into talking about also in a way, when I think about artwork, like someone sent me yet this morning, a DM with, uh, this Japanese artist who's just, she said, she said the exuberance of this woman's art making, uh, what was the term was? I don't think it was exuberant. Um, It's fantastic, though. She said, you know, it reminds me of the way you work. And she was just throwing this huge bucket of black ink against this, you know, white, big roll of white paper. And just all aggressive, but not aggressive, but I just thought, ah, the physicality again. Back to that. 00:14:08.180 --> 00:14:08.900 So true. 00:14:08.900 --> 00:14:47.140 So that's kind of interesting because what we're talking about is like, what I'm talking about is like the male equivalent of the bachelor is like this is very physical, right? It's like dudes beating each other up. But you're talking about there's there that is a component of your creative process that's really important is the physicality of it. But it's not an aggression type physicality. How would you characterize that? It's not like you're fighting the artwork, right? Or are you? Do you feel like it's this maybe exuberance is a more positive way to frame that energy? 00:14:48.060 --> 00:15:45.500 I think sometimes, yeah. Somehow there's some part of it feels like I have to be wrestling with it somehow. Like I'm wrestling with keeping the paper down because it's windy or it's like I'm trying to nail this frigging piece of wood into this other piece of wood and I don't have it, you know, like I don't like happy at all. You like the satisfaction of having things like lined up and you know, ready and then the satisfaction of doing it correctly. And mine's like, I gotta just do it now and I'm not gonna even ask if I can use it. Just like, I'm looking at this piece that I'm right now on the wall and one of them's and the other one's like really jerry-rigged wood and nailed together with wood. And I remember just trying to make that one with the wood. It's all janky. And it's funny to think now Sean, because Sean looked at the cardboard one and he's like, is that? Now, is that a finished piece? 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:54.000 He said, there's paper peeling it off. I'm like, yeah, but it's better. And he understood. I was like, oh, it's a metaphor. Metaphor. 00:16:12.300 --> 00:16:51.920 the precision he must he finds so much satisfaction in getting things even and done right and probably looking at stuff I put together is like holy smokes but yeah I think that just the way I'm built so that's why I think it's hard for me to work in smaller spaces and it's hard to do like I was trying to do a demo I'm like I don't work on small pieces of paper I just right There has to be somehow, even if it's a small space, it's okay, but the space has to be okay to spill and make a mess in. Right. Like the floor has to be okay to go a little nuts on. 00:16:51.920 --> 00:17:02.900 You just can't have that mental overhead to be thinking about messing stuff up. You need to be able to have that not part of the equation. 00:17:02.900 --> 00:17:04.880 Yep. Yep. 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:49.000 Do you wear... What about you? Well, I don't wear special clothes to make art usually. Like there's nothing that's really off limits as far as my wardrobe is concerned for when I go to the studio. And I... So I have to be conscious of not getting everything I own dirty. I mean, although most things have at least a little drop of paint somewhere, but... So I guess maybe that's an equivalence. It doesn't bother me so much to be aware of and concerned for keeping things orderly. You would never go to the studio with a nice outfit on. 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:50.200 No. 00:17:50.280 --> 00:17:51.340 Because that would be... 00:17:51.340 --> 00:17:54.280 I don't trust myself enough. And it wouldn't be enjoyable. 00:17:55.140 --> 00:18:37.300 Right. The enjoyment. That is... Yeah. And this might be going over old territory, but your physicality... there is this tension and maybe, you know, I dare say drama. You know, this is like, this is happening. And then you're doing this, this happened. And then I did this. And then, you know, there's this kind of story and narrative back and forth. Whereas the physicality of my work, I feel is very mindless. It's very like, you know, I'm just scrubbing this thing because it feels good to scrub it. 00:18:37.300 --> 00:18:38.300 Yeah. 00:18:38.300 --> 00:19:02.140 Yeah. There's not as much psychology in there. Maybe this is just all stereotypical male/female stuff, but I don't know. I feel like there's very different motivations behind. You're very physical in your work and the way you make, and I'm also very physical, the driving forces and the satisfaction kind of are located in different places. 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:09.100 I don't think it's a male female thing. I think it's just kind of that person. It's just kind of who we are as beings. 00:19:09.180 --> 00:19:10.180 Oh, for sure. Yeah. 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:11.520 I'm guessing. Yeah. 00:19:11.580 --> 00:19:22.120 I was trying to, to tie that into the, the, or having the bachelor be kind of a metaphor for, for, Yeah, creativity, work creation. 00:19:24.040 --> 00:19:29.240 So our topic today is talking about collage, right? 00:19:29.300 --> 00:19:30.100 I think it's a great idea. 00:19:30.440 --> 00:20:05.540 So when I think about collage and I think about the beginning of it and what... And the freedom of it feels like it's such a nice way to begin into the art making. You know, collage has been something that I think we both have used. And for me, it was a great entryway into being a creative person. And it didn't require being able to paint really well or anything. you know, render things. It just was, it was a tactile, exploratory way of making. 00:20:07.220 --> 00:20:44.000 For me, it's the immediacy of it. And I think that what you're talking about is, it gets to the point, like, you don't have to, it's a low barrier of entry. You don't have to necessarily have rendering skills or knowledge of materials and colors and, you know, all the stuff, you know, that keeps us from getting into other mediums that require a lot more training and time and materials and stuff. You know, like the thing I love about collage is it just lets you immediately jump in and start creating, start putting things together. 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:45.000 Yeah. 00:20:45.000 --> 00:21:08.200 I guess I'd have to point back to when I started learning Photoshop in high school. I took classes at the art center, night classes, and I was learning Photoshop. And that was really the first time I started taking multiple images and then trying to combine them into a single image, which feels like the digital version of collage. 00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:28.280 Yeah. Interesting. So you put both of those together, the digital collage and then the physical collage. Do you see them kind of as the same thing for yourself? 00:21:28.280 --> 00:21:50.260 I think so. I think one just became an extension of the other. I didn't start actually doing physical collage, like with pieces of paper and stuff until... probably a lot later, not until college. And, but I think it was a natural extension 'cause I'd already been thinking in those terms, you know, digitally. 00:21:52.920 --> 00:22:54.160 - Yeah, interesting. I think also photography kind of lends itself to that kind of mindset because, you know, you're working with paper, you're working with arranging, and when you enlarge photos in like a dark room, you're, it's a kind of, when you're projecting and resizing and, you know, and using the chemicals to develop, it all feels very much like collage process I don't know to me anyway where you arrange and rearrange and frame and crop and you're seeing a lot of photographs upon it like when you drive photographs you're seeing them all next to each other or when you're making contact sheets to see you know you're all the negatives on your roll you see them all next to each other on a similar sheet. So there's this kind of aesthetic and a way of, I think, processing visual images that is, gets to what is nice about collage. 00:22:54.160 --> 00:23:32.620 - For me, it was something where I was trying to look, I'd be trying to make something and it would just be, well, I don't know, I think the first collaging I did was as a really little kid with just bits of yarn and ribbons and, paper and wallpaper and things like that. And then there was the awkward phase of being a New Kids on the Block fan and collaging my walls. Yes. Donnie Wahlberg, what's up? Yeah. Yeah, it's the one and only serious crush of a celebrity person. 00:23:33.140 --> 00:23:38.100 We talked about that before. We might need to revisit that in a future music episode. 00:23:38.100 --> 00:23:51.200 I had to break the news to Sean the other day. He was watching Blue Bloods. I'm like, I've got to tell you, I had a real thing with Tony Wahlberg. And it took a little Arsenio Hall show to get over it. 00:24:09.300 --> 00:24:23.920 to build up texture and colors into my photographs. One of my favorite things to do. Of course, like the famous Robert Rauschenberg's collaging, he called them combines. 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:28.260 Romare Bearden was another favorite. 00:24:29.420 --> 00:24:33.100 Do you know his work? Yeah. 00:24:33.100 --> 00:25:02.860 I think it's like we grow up with, especially now that photography is so accessible, so cheap, and so, you know, it's everywhere. It's in magazines. It's in, you know, cereal boxes. It's like whatever surrounds us. that of course kids are using these things in crafts. They're tearing them up, taping them together. These are the raw materials that are in our contemporary environment, right? 00:25:02.860 --> 00:25:05.000 So of course that's what we're gonna reach to. 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:55.120 And I think somewhere along the line when you go to art school, you're indoctrinated with a certain kind of hierarchy of values, right? Like oil paint on linen is the gold standard, right? Right, right. That's real artwork, right? Right. And then there's this kind of cascading or diminishing value. you know, list of art materials and techniques underneath that, you know. And I think collage tends to be put down pretty low to the bottom. And I wonder if that's not because, you know, the materials are seen as common and unique. You know, like, this is what a kid does. A kid picks up, you know, random stuff and smashes it all together. 00:25:55.800 --> 00:25:57.440 You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yep. Yep. 00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:00.200 Yeah. 00:26:00.520 --> 00:26:56.920 I think that's becoming a more and more outdated and, you know, mindset of the past. I think as contemporary art schools, at least when I was there, and it's been a while now since I was in school, but there really was a push to break down this notion that some materials are more inherently artistic or valuable than others you know it's like there was a fibers department at my at my school you know and where people's art the art students just made focused on creating work out of different kinds of materials like fibers and bits of paper and i don't know it's like you didn't have to start with charcoal drawings and then graduate to color drawings and graduate to acrylic and then graduate to oil. And, you know, there's just. 00:26:57.740 --> 00:27:02.860 And I guess just even the financial part of it that were more expensive, all those materials. 00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:04.700 Mm hmm. 00:27:04.700 --> 00:27:12.660 Whereas like a magazine and some Elmer's glue and just some cardboard and you can get at it. 00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:13.660 Right. 00:27:13.660 --> 00:27:39.620 But I think it's important to understand like human beings, that's in a lot of areas of life we have to try to justify what we're doing, you know, and try to create an understanding of if it's valuable and why it's valuable. And so we start assigning meaning to certain attributes that sometimes can almost feel random. Like why is it that oil painting became, 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:42.920 you know, this thing of value? 00:27:44.880 --> 00:28:10.460 Why not acrylic, which is more, you know, a newer material that's more resilient over time. And I don't know, you know what I mean? Like there are so many nonsensical reasons and things just happen because of, you know, circumstance that make art more, you know, people decide what is and what isn't art and what is and what isn't good and bad. 00:28:11.080 --> 00:28:35.520 I agree. I agree in a certain part. And then the other thing is when you see a really beautiful oil painting of a, you know, beautiful landscape and the sun is just glowing through the landscape and you think, wow. And that feel like monumentally valuable and, and beautiful and, and this different level than maybe an acrylic painting of a cow. 00:28:36.940 --> 00:28:44.260 True, but I'd say, like, you're comparing apples and oranges. Mm-hmm. Like, if you put a Rauschenberg next to a Vermeer... 00:28:44.260 --> 00:28:44.760 Right. 00:28:45.000 --> 00:29:30.820 It's like you're kind of... you know, they have nothing to do with each other. Right, right. They were both trying to accomplish two very different things. So I think that often happens is like all art gets put under one umbrella. And so people look at a Vermeer and then they go to the minimalist section or they go to Picasso and they're like, are we really comparing Vermeer to Picasso? like just in terms of craft and it's like there's just so i guess it depends you know the conversation i guess needs to start like what are you trying to accomplish and what is it that what's what purpose does it serve i think yeah anyway and is it just some what what is your 00:29:30.820 --> 00:29:55.140 what is your form of self-expression that you the long what's going to feel good to do and so for me it's never felt I've never been drawn to a slow painting process of intricate like that doesn't get me going where sitting down on the floor and pajama bottoms and listening to indigo girls and collaging really gets my heart racing 00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:56.800 yeah 00:29:56.800 --> 00:30:23.900 - No, so much of this is like, feels like it's straight out of that book, "Art and Fear." Like, you know, it really does come down to like, what is it that's gonna get you creating? You know, what is yours to say? And just because you think, you know, an oil painting of, you know, some pastoral scene, maybe you think that's awesome. That's not necessarily what you're here to say. 00:30:23.900 --> 00:30:28.660 That's not necessarily your statement or your meeting or your mode of working, right? 00:30:29.460 --> 00:32:12.340 I think I love Rembrandt, and people do spend entire art careers learning how to paint as well craft-wise as Rembrandt, whether it's a portrait or landscape. or still life or whatever. But while I appreciate that and I feel like I've learned a lot from that, I just do not want to spend my whole life, art life, you know, learning how to handle paint like that. The reality is I kind of want to spend my time tearing stuff up and learning about resin and learning about lasers and it's like there's only so many hours of the day and and ultimately whatever is like kind of what's feeding your soul is what you ought to follow you can't be everybody you know yeah i feel like collage just gets uh like there's this assumption that it's that is made going into it um and it's a wrong assumption because people are comparing it to this like kind of idealized notion or this this incorrect perception of what art is and what it has to be right it's like you don't have to go in and learn how to oil paint you could I mean that's one of the options but that you're not gonna be an artist just because you know how to oil oil paint. Exactly. And the converse is also true. It's not like you're not an artist because you don't oil paint, right? Right, right. And if you make big messy paintings, is it a Vermeer? No. Is it going to make people feel like a Vermeer makes them feel? No. But the other way is true also, is that? if somebody's looking for something really big and splashing physical and 00:32:12.340 --> 00:32:16.380 visceral, they're not going to go to Vermeer. Exactly. Exactly. 00:32:16.820 --> 00:32:19.700 They don't have to be the same and thank goodness, you know, they're not. 00:32:20.660 --> 00:32:23.080 What are your favorite materials to collage with? 00:32:23.700 --> 00:33:14.520 I like the juxtaposition. I'm going to use that word. of like photographic information and it almost doesn't even matter what it's a photograph of, just that like the look of a photograph. Yeah. Next to you know, like material, texture, abstract. So I think I like just taking pictures of my environment, you know, the back alley, the texture of the pavement, and just having that as bits of paper and using that as material. And then also just like different, like solid colored papers. I don't know, I guess. Yeah, it's like, and then acrylic paint. 00:33:14.520 --> 00:33:16.300 What about you? 00:33:16.300 --> 00:34:33.100 I love, again, yes, I love photography and I love printing out my photographs onto a matte, a matte, heavy matte paper, kind of like a printmaking paper, and then collaging into them that way. That's one of the things in the, in Liberate and the course, uh, I talk through about how creating pages and spreads, they're more photography based and collaging into those, um, effectively. There's, and then I guess I love the dimension of fabric and ribbon and anything that gives it a little lift and three-dimensional quality to it. I love natural like putting in, if you're gonna photograph the piece isn't gonna be just dried and framed or something, but it's gonna be something that's maybe then collage and then photographed. I would love having some natural like leaves or flowers in the piece. I love and I love working with old paper, book paper, pages from old books, maps, I love tissue paper and 00:34:33.100 --> 00:34:35.040 pattern 00:34:35.040 --> 00:34:45.180 pattern paper you know the folds up really thin kind of goldish brown paper I just love doing it 00:34:45.180 --> 00:36:44.520 me too I mean like I hear you say all those things and I'm like yeah that sounds like a great time yeah The more variety, the better, right? It's like you get this... And that's the wonderful thing about collage to begin with is it's like you have all this stuff. You get to figure out how to navigate and combine all these things into something that's cohesive and meaningful. You get to... I don't know, that's like at the heart of the playfulness of creating, right? So you get just all this stuff and you get to mush it together. The original question kind of pointed to somebody feeling like they weren't a real artist if they were doing collage. And I think you got, I guess I want to reinforce the notion that you got to start stop thinking like that I think that's an incorrect way of thinking and it's keeping you from creating if that's yeah if that's an assumption if that's a found foundational principle that you have you got to stop thinking like that a collage is not an oil painting it is not a Vermeer or a Rembrandt or fill in the blank. It's a totally different thing and you've got to decide what it is that you're trying to say and what the right techniques and materials are to say that. And collage, for a lot of us, is a fantastic way to go about it and it's it's a you can say things with collage that you can't say with any other medium and you can have an immediacy and a materiality with collage that isn't possible with any other you know paint only process so i think it's just a tragedy well that's overstating it but i think it's sad that people you know feel like they can't they don't have access to certain materials that they would really love to play with because it's not real art you know, whatever with that. 00:36:46.620 --> 00:36:57.520 I just, and I also think that scale, it's just, it's just great because you can do it at any scale and yeah. And if you don't have scissors, it's always great. Cause you can just use your hands. 00:36:59.260 --> 00:36:59.760 Absolutely. 00:37:01.180 --> 00:37:07.400 What materials do you use? What's your favorite as far as the adhesives go for collaging? 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:40.680 I think the nectar of the gods, I'd say, I've said often in my classes, is matte medium. I'd say, like, you don't want to use gloss medium just until the very end because then you get little patches of matte and patches of gloss that can be kind of distracting. so I usually just say I just use a ton I get it by the gallon of medium and yeah that's what I use what about you? 00:37:41.700 --> 00:37:56.280 I will I and I use a glue mixture like Elmer's glue with a bit of warm water, two-thirds glue, one-third water, and a sponge brush is good, or even a little less water depending. 00:37:58.600 --> 00:38:14.860 I think that dries really flat, and you can always still go over with ink. I run into challenges any time having any adhesive that has acrylic in it. If I want to go over handwriting with ink over it, sometimes that can repel. 00:38:16.660 --> 00:38:26.440 Oh, you're absolutely right. Yeah. Now, that plasticky surface is not very friendly to aqueous media, to ink or watercolor or anything like that. 00:38:26.740 --> 00:38:27.240 Yeah. 00:38:27.500 --> 00:38:29.460 That's interesting. Huh. Very cool. 00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:30.800 Yeah. 00:38:30.600 --> 00:38:35.920 Okay folks Well Well That's our show for today 00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:38.340 Happy Monday 00:38:38.340 --> 00:38:41.820 Oh Happy Monday 00:38:41.820 --> 00:38:45.240 What's up for the week? What you working on? 00:38:45.720 --> 00:38:58.300 Liberate is going to open it for registration again in March And so it's been exciting to just be diving into Creating the new content And just getting really excited about it That's awesome 00:38:58.300 --> 00:39:01.140 Yeah, it's wonderful. What about you? 00:39:01.620 --> 00:39:10.740 I am working on a couple big laser paintings, you know, resin and laser paintings. Awesome. Yep, that's what I'm doing. 00:39:11.520 --> 00:39:13.120 All right, sayonara. 00:39:17.080 --> 00:39:20.500 Bye. Is that what you say? Sayonara? Yeah, I think so. 00:39:21.640 --> 00:39:23.400 Sayonara. Bye. 00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:34.120 Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. In the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram at Sabrina Ward Harrison and at Trent Reynolds Art. And check out the show notes at roominthetrees.com 00:39:34.120 --> 00:39:39.100 where you can also get in touch if you have any ideas you'd like to share. If you like this podcast, 00:39:39.100 --> 00:39:44.960 Please consider showing your support. You can become a subscribing patron at patreon.com forward slash room. 00:39:45.160 --> 00:39:56.600 Please help us grow our audience by rating us or writing a review on iTunes. To do that, you can use the link roominthetrees.com forward slash iTunes. ♪ ♪