Susie LaFond Sabrina Ward HarrisonThis is Room in the Trees, a podcast about living a creative life. Room in the Trees is hosted by Trent Reynolds and me, Sabrina Ward-Harrison.
Trenton ReynoldsShow notes including pictures, links, video, and more for every episode can be found at roominthetrees.com.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYou can follow us on Instagram at Sabrina Ward Harrison and at Trent Reynolds Art.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd now, here's this week's episode.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI'm excited because I'm creating a... People have been asking, like, how can I work with you closer and more? in a more direct way. And so I've created an inner circle mentoring and I have space for maybe six people at the most that I'm gonna work with for six months at a time. And so I'm just working today with Megan she's over here right now. We're just creating the, the structure for offering it. So I've been thinking about it and just kind of meditating on the shape of that and what, how I want to, what I want to offer and how I can be there for people.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah. I mean, you've, you've gotten the chance now to, to experiment with a lot of different ways of, of interacting with people. Do you have any, do you have any ideas or hints at what that might look like?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYou don't have to have some, it's not about like experience or anything. It's just about, you know, really communicating where you're at, where you want to get to, how I can really support you and, and we'll be doing it over Zoom. And then also like Marco Polo, I just love that app. So you can, I can just give, you know, they can ask questions and I can give direct feedback and they're working on something I can, I can, you know, talk to them about, you know, what they're working on and interact directly with me. So whether it's they're working on their book and they want to get it done or they're have other projects, it's, I just am excited to just have that for the introvert, you know, creative that really wants to go further and get, get where they want to go. I found that really beneficial in my life. So I'm thinking of a structure, like it's going to be a small group of support, but also individual, individual direct support. contact and feedback, but I like the idea of just a small group that's able to support and encourage each other too. So I think that there's a power in community.
Trenton ReynoldsRight. It's interesting to me to think of the kind of support that you get from a one-on-one versus small group versus larger community versus... you know like genre or you know the whole field type deal like each of those levels of Interaction with with other human beings kind of serves a different purpose and provides a different kind of information
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYou know, and I think people make that I know in my mind I've thought before like well I just want the one-on-one coaching or you know mentoring and I
think
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSometimes it's something I, what I don't know, what I really need is actually a smaller group. I need to have that connection with other people and feedback and sharing of experience and relatability. And that's actually way more beneficial and that builds relationships that last for a long time. So I think I've misjudged myself with thinking I need to have just only with that, you know, only with a person directly one-on-one the whole time. And I think there really is something we're meant to be a part of circles, you know, a part of is really important.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, that sounds cool. Looking forward to seeing how that turns out. It's something that I feel like has been kind of evolving for a while. Like you had different kinds of groups in different ways throughout all of the courses that you've offered. But this is something that kind of consolidates those ideas.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. And I feel I'm in a place where I can really – I have a lot. to give in that area. So, and what about you?
Trenton ReynoldsI have just been, well today, before we had to leave, I did another cricket scribble drawing for my iPad. I found a new application that works much better than the ones that I've been using previously. For some reason, the ones I was using before took a long time to load and it just, if, felt like it wasn't as quick a process as I wanted it to be. So I found an application that works really well. I did a much larger drawing. I did a 12 by 11 by 12 drawing. So the larger size with the bigger, thicker pen.
Oh,
Trenton ReynoldsI tried printing also on a, uh, aqueous media or a water media acetate. So like a clear plastic. but it's like specially formulated to receive water-based media. Oh. So I just printed those out. I'm looking forward to spending a little time in the studio today, kind of pushing those around and see what it does. But, you know, I was asked a question today by somebody else in the makerspace. What is the difference between this, you know, the pen essentially recreating my iPad drawing and just printing the drawing out? which was kind of an interesting question. Like, printers are good enough now that they can really, you know, come pretty close to looking like the same thing. And that might be a question that other people have been thinking, seeing what I'm doing. But I've tried painting into... printed things before like water-based inks from an inkjet printer. And to a certain degree, they'll bleed and run and stuff like that. But this is a whole different thing. It really is much more liquid-like. And the pigment really starts to bleed and move around a lot more than ink from an inkjet printer. I think it might be because when you're applying it with a pen, more of the ink comes out. Whereas when you're spraying it on with an inkjet printer, it probably comes in a much thinner layer. I don't know what exactly it is, but there is a qualitative difference for sure between anything I've tried before and... the way this moves around with water.
Awesome.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd also just like the way, yeah, yeah, yeah. The way the pen moves on paper leaves little, like where it lingers a little bit more, it will leave a little thicker line. And if it moves fast, the line is thinner. So there's different line quality that you get with this just because of the way that it's being printed out. Anyway, I'm kind of enamored with these little, little scribble iPad cricket drawings.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonCan't wait to see them. Yeah, can't wait to see more of them. I love it.
And now,
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSusie LaFond. Susie LaFond. So Susie is a self-taught, made-from-scratch kind of mixed-media artist living in Minnesota. She's tried on many different medias over the years and found that visual journal and journal-making was truest. So over the years, Susie's been a contributing teacher in four online workshops, and her work has been published in numerous magazines and six books, two of which she was a contributing author and was given her own chapter.
Susie LaFondOh, Susie, I'm so glad you've joined us.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWelcome to Ruin the Trees. Well, thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Trenton Reynoldsyou've come up, you know, several times now on the podcast. So it's, it's great to actually have you on. Well, thank you. Fill in some of the gaps that I'm sure we've left from, from what we've said.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSo Susie has been kicking serious, but finishing. She is, have you, you officially have finished your book?
Susie LaFondI'm just waiting for one forward. Otherwise it's done.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonUnbelievable. Tell us about how many pages is it?
Susie LaFondOnce that forward comes, I believe it's going to be 318 or 320.
Trenton ReynoldsWow!
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYes! How badass is that? That's awesome. Oh my gosh. So I have admired Susie's work on Instagram over the past couple of years. And so when she reached out to me, and I think you were just mentioning it, maybe it was a year ago or so, you said, you know, I have a book inside of me that I want to do and it was was it before I'd even sort of started creating Liberate I'm not sure maybe I was just putting the little feelers out about doing it but you mentioned your interest and then I kind of asked you further about some of the things you really want to be sure were covered and you want to learn about and get support with and so I kind of used you as in my mind as the target of like if I can get Susie what she needs then I'm gonna cover all the bases that I need to cover because you had some really detailed questions about copyright and things like that and like okay gotta cover all of this so it was it was fun to to kind of have that challenge to like I got it I gotta get I I got to impress Susie with this one.
And you did.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad. Yeah, but it was a real help to have that. Because the questions that you don't think of, I don't think of, like, oh, right, of course, those would be... important questions to ask so it was a joy having you having you in the course and one of my favorite memories was when we were doing one of the weeks it was about you know freeing ourselves basically the whole thing and you I was driving and I looked down at the Instagram stories and it sees Susie just slapping a mop with blue paint and water up onto her wall and just like it was just it's fantastic it's like that's my girl look at her go! I want to see that video where is that?
Trenton Reynoldsthat sounds wonderful a mop with blue paint on your wall
Sabrina Ward Harrisonmm-hmm we were just trying to loosen it all up right Totally loose. Yeah, yeah. Goosey goosey. Goosey goosey.
Trenton ReynoldsSo, Liberate was, just for those who might not be, remember or be aware, was the course that you created specifically addressing creating a book. book, right? From start to finish.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSo I created that this year, and so we did the first launch of it last this past spring, and then it will launch again in January. So the people that have gone through it now are working and creating these incredible books, and so Susie is the first one through the gates here.
Um,
Sabrina Ward Harrisonand it's just really exciting. So I, I was inspired by her, her journey and I've loved, and I just loved her. Um, the question she's also posed to, to our podcast. And,
uh,
Sabrina Ward Harrisontopics she's brought up. So just excited to have her here to talk a little bit about maybe her experience in Liberate and making the book and then also questions she has just creatively were some great things for us to maybe talk about together. And I
Trenton Reynoldsalso think, Sabrina, that something that you just brought up is kind of on my mind right now and that is the importance of having a target for people who are interested in making a course or even just like expressing yourself online or connecting with people online, it can be difficult cause you know that there are so many people out there with different life experiences and different needs and wants and it can be overwhelming to try to think about speaking to all of those people. But if you have kind of a concept in your mind of a specific person that you are catering to or that you're having a conversation with, it can be so helpful in focusing what your message and your purpose is and course. And I think the fact that Susie was so willing to, to engage in that way, seems like it was like an important part of the development of the course.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAbsolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that the, the target, you're so right on about that. Like I'd like, I, that's why I think I like publishing is just that sense of it. I need, I can't just vaguely create art for just me. art's sake necessarily. I've always been someone who likes a challenge and a goal at the end of it and something hearty and substantial. That's what you've done, Susie.
Trenton ReynoldsSo Susie, can you give us some background as far as like where you were before you came across the Liberate or what prompted you to reach out to Sabrina and kind of where you came from?
Susie LaFondSure. I've been doing this art thing now probably, well, my life actually, but definitely hardcore the last 25 years. I'm 60, so I have a whole lot of experience to draw from in that regard. My Instagram feed is probably my primary social media outlet. and I'm on Facebook, but I never use Facebook, and I don't know at what point, probably maybe two years ago, I just started sharing things more personally from my life. My art definitely stems from my childhood, which wasn't pleasant. All of everything that I created was a lot of that. And even though a lot of it isn't, you know, you look at it and it doesn't feel hardcore or anything by any means, I create very intuitively. And what I was starting to see was that that I didn't have to necessarily explain all of it verbatim. I could express it in a few words. So when I post a journal page, I would share the thoughts that were going through my head as I created it. And people started to reach out to me through just comments and messaging saying, you know, I can really relate to what you're sharing. I understand. I've had a similar experience and
then
Susie LaFondsome of them said you should really write a book and I've always loved books. Books were a huge refuge for me as a child and when I started journaling and making my own journals, I realized that my love of books was also what I was moving towards as an artist. I mean, it just felt, I relied on books heavily as a child, and journals were then feeding my passions as an adult. So it felt full circle to me. And I spent a lot of time in my imagination as a child, and there was always a point where, in my head as a kid, I'd create stories. And I never really thought about it too much. It was just something I did to work through what I was dealing with. And while I never felt I wanted to write a novel, after I saw Sabrina's books, I'm like, wow, you can put a lot into a visual journal that, you know, goes beyond just the art part of it and can... grab the emotional part of it as well and then share that. So when folks started saying, Susie, you should write a book, I started thinking, yeah, maybe I can do that. And there was a part of me that was serious and then there was the other side of me that was like, yeah, right. You can write a book. Sure. Go ahead. Try and do that. But the more and more I thought about it, I finally got to a point where I'm like, yeah, I think I want to do this. And I had started exploring, you know, options on the web and stuff. And then Sabrina had said something about, I'm thinking of writing, doing this class on bookmaking. And I'm like, oh, my God. that's perfect. And then it all kind of fell into place after that.
Trenton ReynoldsSo that just happened to coincide with this time that you're thinking more seriously about making a book?
Totally.
Trenton ReynoldsDid you have to have an interaction with Sabrina before that, or was that the first time you had reached out?
Susie LaFondYou know, I don't remember. I don't know if I had, because I've messaged Sabrina, you know, every once in a while, and I honestly don't remember if... I did it before I heard about her thinking about doing a class or if it was after. But either way, the timing for me was uncanny. It felt like the universe saying, yeah, you know, you should really do this. And then the more I... thought about it, the more excited I got. Even though there was a part of me that was still very doubtful that I could pull it off, I was definitely serious about exploring it. Now that it's done, I'm like, I'm really pleased. Couldn't be more happy. To put it mildly.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsOh, my gosh. Sabrina, it seems like this is something that's come up on the podcast, you know, more than once I know, where, like, you were at a point where you were thinking about doing something online, and then all of a sudden this person messaged you on Facebook saying you should really think about doing a course, and if you need help, I'm here. Right. Like it seems like, I don't know, there's something to just being ready for the opportunity when it arrives. Right. That's right. And like that's right. Like that's a lot of what creativity is often is just getting yourself to a place to be able to receive what you know, what the world has to has to offer you, you know, or the help that you need.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd I think what I remember, Susie, also is you just wanting to get clear with what the book was going to be. You were saying, you know, I've been asked to write books about, you know, technique and things like that. And I remember conversations with you about that aspect of like, what's the book that really needs to be born from inside of you? And that felt like versus being just taking a course, it felt like how to put a book together. It was something that was a real... What was... Can you talk about that journey for you from what you sort of started?
Susie LaFondthinking and how that yeah my original intent for the book i knew part of it was going to be memoir i had no doubt about that um several people i knew have asked me specifically about techniques as well and i thought okay i can do the memoir part and then i can include technique portions Well, in my 320 pages or so, there's no technique. I had to sadly let go of that, partly because my book's getting really too big. And, you know, I'm kind of thinking that maybe I will do that. But the thing with me and technique is there isn't a technique that I know or use that honestly isn't already out there. Last week, a gal reached out to me through IG messaging and said, she wanted to know, she's reached out to me before in the past, and she wanted to know how I had done a specific page. And I'm more than happy to share with anyone who asks me how I developed a page. I have no problem with that because the technology, techniques I use aren't anything special so I messaged her back and I said you know this is what I did you know layers of paint and a few images and in the thing is it's for me it's a time thing I rarely do I sit down with a blank page and finish that same page in the same way. You know, sometimes I can go back to something that I may have started six months ago. And then all of a sudden, the page, whatever I bring to the page pops and it's done. But that's not my general way of creating to say, okay, you can do A, B, and C, and this is how I did it. So I, you know, I did share with her all the materials I used, basically what I had done, but to formally call it a technique, It's really not. It's just whatever's going on inside of me. It's transferred into my fingers and it ends up on the page I mean, there's nothing very glamorous about that but to try make that into a process that someone else can replicate and
it's hard.
Susie LaFondI mean, because you don't know where the person is coming from. That's looking at your technique and going, can I do this? They probably can do it, but their version of what I did is going to be their own. That's right. Two may not look anything alike.
Trenton ReynoldsWe exchanged some, I don't know, I got a question that you're, a thought that you had texted Sabrina. She passed it along to me and it got me thinking about this experience I had when I first started teaching where people would come into a painting class and they would say, I really love this kind of painting. I want to learn how to do this. And then I would demonstrate a different thing that was totally, you know, unrelated to what they had originally come into the class wanting to do. But it really lit them on fire. Like this is, oh, I really want to do that. And this happened so many times that I realized it wasn't necessarily a specific thing that they were a technique or a material that they were looking for. What they were trying to do is recreate that feeling they had when they were exposed to an artwork that really resonated with them. Yeah. And when somebody, you had mentioned like, how do you respond to the question, how do you do that? When somebody asks you, how do you do that? I think people don't realize that they're not asking, how do you do that in terms of of like a technique, but they're asking, how do I get to the place where I can make people feel the way you made me feel with that artwork?
You know what I'm saying?
Trenton ReynoldsExactly. And that is a much trickier business. You know, it's a much trickier thing to teach people how to intuit their way into an authentic expression of something, you know. near and dear to themselves and I think that's something that Sabrina both in her workshops not online and online I think you've done an admirable job of finding a way to accomplish that virtually as well has been able to help people tap into the bigger question of how do you make people feel you know, that feeling and not necessarily just make work. That's, you know, step A, step B, step C.
Susie LaFondExactly. Exactly. I took a class years and years ago. from an artist who her work is completely intuitive and so is her process. And Sabrina, it's very similar to yours in that, okay, so great example. You put down paint, red, blue, yellow. You put that down. which you have been doing for years, and every time you do it, it's different. But when you put that paint down, whether it's on a canvas or on a journal page or on a big piece of paper on the ground or on the wall, once that paint is there, your hands... instinctively and intuitively because of you know what to do. There's memory in your fingers that only you, that only you know. So when I took this class, I, As soon as we began, and it was online, as soon as we began, I realized that no amount of splooshing paint down is going to give me the exact experience that the artist has when she's doing it because she's working completely intuitively from her emotions, from her feelings, her movements, and her hands know what that is. So I started thinking about this this afternoon. I'm like, If you were to take someone who appreciates the work and wants to try it, and you tell them, all right, we're going to start with this paint, you know, no form, nothing fancy, move your fingers through it. That sensory experience for them might be very different from what you experience. And so their initial reaction might be, ick.
Yeah.
Susie LaFondor wow, this is awesome. But then what they continue to do with it from that point, even if they're watching and copying every move you make, is going to be a different experience for them. And when they get done, they may look at it and go, God, that's just awful. Or they may feel completely in tune with it. But it all came from them. And I don't... I think this is sometimes what stops non-creative people from understanding art in general, especially abstract work. Because sometimes it looks really simple. But the process that it took to get to that point is probably more complex than anybody realizes. Because they think, my husband, for one, if he saw an abstract work of just crazy paint, he's going to go, you know, anybody can do that. And they can't. It's truly a personal experience.
Trenton ReynoldsSo what was it about Liberate that worked for you, that was able to kind of empower you in that way to, like, obviously, you know, 200-plus pages, 300-plus pages? Yes. That it did something to open up the floodgates?
Susie LaFondOh, totally. I mean, initially, for me, I mean, I was totally 100% into it, so I think that helped. I was committed. I think a class like Liberate, I think you have to go into that experience fully and open-heartedly. I mean, I don't think it's a halfway point. I think you have to totally commit to it. And I was already at that point where I knew I was, and there was no way. for me personally, that I was going to take your class, Sabrina, and not follow through. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't willing to do that. I mean, it was an investment in me personally. It was an investment, um, even if not a single soul, buys the book. I told my daughter, I said, this is my legacy. I said, even years down the road when I'm no longer here, I said, you will know me, that you will have a connection to me through this book. And so for me, it isn't even about anyone buying it or not buying it. I'm happy with it. I'm 100% fulfilled by it. And I think the thing that, well, I'll back up a little bit. Like I had a vague idea of the direction I wanted to go. And I was preparing for that. So during the months that you were developing the class, Sabrina, after I knew I was going to sign up, I had started going through my 30-some journals and photocopying the artwork that I thought, all right, so whatever this book turns out to be, these are the things that I'd like in it. And I probably had... oh God, I don't know, maybe 200 or so printed pages of material that I thought I wanted in the book to start with. And then I had started amassing, going through all the different things that I had written. So I printed all those out, which... It was probably like some 500 sheets. And basically they were all just posts from Instagram. And then, you know, that some went way back and some didn't go way back. And I used those as prompts. So in class, I know what I thought I was going to do at that point. But it was... I think the thing that got, that was most valuable to me was number one, the community and the fact that we had active sessions during the couple months period that it ran. That was really helpful. And I wasn't sure at first if that was going to work for me because Sabrina, okay, here's the biggest problem I had. and that I did overcome is I never could get the whole mind mapping thing to work. And that isn't anything because I did get it after I was in the middle of making the book. And I figured out why. It's like, all right, so when we would be engaged in a session, the part of my brain that I accessed, to be engaged and learning, I realized it's not the same part of my brain that I utilize when I create. So true. You'd say, all right, so do this free writing. And I'd sit there and I'd go,
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI can't switch gears though. Yeah, interesting. Some people can.
Susie LaFondYeah. And I envy those people because sometimes I'm like, okay, I got to change gears now. And I try and get myself into this headspace where I can free write. And free writing is something I've never been very good at. And yet, when I write an Instagram post, sometimes that happens in 30 seconds.
Yeah.
Susie LaFondBut sometimes I won't write a post twice. you know, for hours and hours because I'm stewing about something over and over in my mind. And then eventually it comes out and then I'll throw that up. But to just constantly switch gears is really tough for me. So once... And once I moved beyond that, because there for a while I'm like, I am a complete idiot. I cannot do this mind mapping thing. But probably maybe six weeks ago, all of a sudden I realized, okay, I've got this mind mapping thing down. But it was a totally different thing. version of it. It was all the pieces of paper I had printed. It was all the photocopies I had made. And then my bringing them together into the pages of the book. And it changed over and over again. I learned a few tricks once we did the digitizing your handwriting. Mm-hmm. Photoshop is a challenge for me. I don't totally get it. But I figured out through Photoshop, a lot of my journal pages, and it goes to the copyright thing again, which was invaluable as part of the class. But a lot of my journal pages have magazine images on them.
And...
Susie LaFondAnd I know that's a really fine line, you know, with the copyright, but most of them are current. And I wasn't about to break copyright law for the sake of my book, no matter how cool they may look on my journal pages. When I made them, they were never intended to be published. So, I'm like, alright, that eliminates a lot of what I can use as pages, especially the earlier stuff. But then through Photoshop, quite by accident, I learned how to make things disappear automatically. So I'd take a picture of a page, put it in Photoshop, and lo and behold, I could take away a copyrighted image. And then what it left behind was an entirely new blank journal page right on my computer. I was like, holy. So it opened up a whole lot more pages that I could use. I could remove what was... potentially a copyright issue, have a whole new, basically a blank canvas to work with. And through the magic of Photoshop, some of the images, because of just the style of my pages, you'd never know that the image was there to begin with. And then I started pairing them up with different images written portions. And that didn't happen. That was a really recent discovery. So while it didn't really change the content of my book, it certainly opened up a different possibility. And I never would have figured that out had we not had the segment on digitizing your handwriting. So... For someone that is fairly low tech, I found that mind-blowing. And it might not be that for everybody, but it certainly was for me. And I also, once my book started to get as big as it did, I know we brought this up in class, Sabrina. Yeah. I asked, I can't remember the attorney's name. Fatima.
Yeah.
Susie LaFondWhen I had asked about cutout word poetry, everything that I put on a journal page, as far as the words go, is stuff that comes out of my own head. But a lot of times I'm using cutout words to put those things together. And as I started looking at some of the pages that are in my book, I'm like, And whether or not it would have been a problem, I still wasn't sure. If I'm cutting words out of, say, one single book, the font on that book is all going to be the same. Even if I've cut out the words and rearranged them and wrote something completely different, I'm still using words that was printed, made by someone else, and even though you can't own a word, I'm putting them together in my own way. But to me, I'm looking at this font on these cutout words going, what if the person that wrote that book sees these, recognizes the font, and then I didn't know until recently that fonts are copyrightable. Oh my gosh. What if that font is copyright protected? Right. So I used the Photoshop tool whatever technique it is to remove all those words and then I went back in and wrote them by hand and then did the whole digitizing your handwriting and
Sabrina Ward Harrisonthen place them on the page how cool to hear that Susie that's and I love when things happen like that with a check there's sort of a question or challenge of that leads to then a breakthrough of a whole different kind of something coming alive in your work because I started to see the change. I think once you mastered the line art and transferring that, digitizing it, just seeing how it really affected your pages. They came alive in a totally different way.
Susie LaFondRight, and it solved my concerns. Yes, exactly. The more I got into it, the more I started worrying. I mean, the odds are infinitesimal, but still they exist and I'm really big on, you know, not taking someone else's work and completely changing it. It's kind of like that artist who had used all of your books and turned them into collages of their own. I mean, they thought they were doing something that was completely their own. And even though We're talking a few words on a page still. And I learned that the hard way. And we're talking a two-inch by two-inch image, literally. It was from a photography magazine. You know, it was a few years old. I had used it on a tiny page, a four-inch by four-inch page. Okay. and it was back when I was still keeping up my blog, and I put it on my blog, and in turn, several people had seen this and had put it on Pinterest, so now it was all over the Internet, and it wasn't even a particularly amazing thing. page, it was pretty, you know, just nothing I would have been throwing up on Pinterest, but the photographer who had taken the photo of the tiny, tiny image that I had put on that page, saw it and she reached out to me via email and Of course, you know, she shared her concerns with me and I said, oh, you know, I apologized and I'm like I am so sorry You know and I explained to her, you know, it was just I a page from my journal and I was drawn to the image and she respected all that and I respected her concerns and I removed the image. You know, I took the post down and then went through Pinterest, my Pinterest boards, and made sure that it wasn't there so it couldn't be continually getting repinned. And the lesson I took from that was, we're talking of Only she would have been able to know that that small image was hers, but she found it nonetheless out of the millions of people on the internet and I thought I don't want that to be the experience in my book where someone says I Recognize the font on those words and I know them they're from my book so yeah, I I chose to avoid doing that because you just never know.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThe thing that comes to mind to just listening to you talk about Photoshop in particular, I teach Photoshop. So I, I, I see the overwhelm that a lot of people feel coming to it and it's such an intimidating interface. And it's such an intimidating even idea because we have this notion of what Photoshop is just from, you know I think our culture the way we think of images being photoshopped and I think for a lot of people it's like either I have to jump in and use Photoshop and get really complicated with it or you know or it's just like that's not for me I'm not a techie person But it's an application that even the pros, nobody that's like seriously pro Photoshop uses 100% of Photoshop. You know, it's like they use the little slice of it that applies to whatever they're trying to accomplish. And maybe Photoshop is all you need it for is erasing parts of your image and then being able to put something else in or to edit it in. These tools are so powerful even at the very simplest of functions. Just to be able to move things around instantaneously and then be able to undo it, you know, and try something else rapidly. I think, like, I always, you know, I feel like a lot of artists just have decided that they're not techie, so they never even try. You know, when in reality, there are a lot of ways to enter using digital tools. that are not complicated, you know, or not unbearably difficult to learn, you know, if you just like give yourself permission to try. Anyway.
Susie LaFondExactly. I was just so excited. I mean, because I'm like, I can do this. I just have to be patient. I can do this. And yeah, it was incredibly, incredibly helpful. And to be honest, I'm like, wow, I actually figured out how to do that. I'd shoot a picture of what I had done on my phone and then I'd shoot it to my daughter. Look what I did! because she's a photographer and she knows her way around Photoshop. So, yeah, that was actually more fun than I ever thought it would be. And even though I only used it very minimally, in terms of copyright, it really was a lifesaver for me because I could stay true to what I'd written on pages and then completely erase the worry of... if I put this out into the world, is something going to come back to haunt me?
Trenton ReynoldsSusie, you asked a question to Sabrina that I think would be worthwhile taking a little time with, and that is, does Sabrina feel satisfied? Do you remember how you phrased that question?
Susie LaFondSabrina, having finished this first class, and now you're going into the second session of liberate. Do you feel that you've communicated through the class and that what you've gotten back is the experience you thought it was going to be? Do you feel fulfilled? Yeah, that's so,
Sabrina Ward Harrisonyeah, it's a great question. I do in this way that I never, it just, you know, all the years I resisted doing it because I thought this is going to be cheesy. I can't just do it. I can't You know just sort of like the conversation earlier. You can't teach intuitive Thing you know process but you can evoke and you can help lead and inspire forward and show the way you've gone through it and I just felt I felt so alive and energized and leading you all through that experience. I really, it worked for me on the level of being an, you know, an introvert, being able to kind of have this really engaging time and then time to reflect and be back in my own space and just seeing people having these breakthroughs and everybody was at different places and, um, continuing to see that happening. Um, I learned so much from it, obviously to be able to apply for the next round. And the part of me that wants to just keep doing it, I didn't really want to stop after the eight weeks of like, can we just keep going? And, you know, so there's, I'm learning so much as I go, like, how can we, you know, being able to offer that continued support and be as, Then also like letting people find, like you said, they have to make that commitment to themselves that they're going to do it and you just got to do it. I was teaching away in Europe and I just found that I thought about how much I loved. I love the way that this way I can reach so many more people and I can engage with people all around the world, different time zones and And It's not such a huge commitment as traveling to do a workshop with me.
Trenton ReynoldsI think there's a sense that, you know, there's some kind of compromise being made or, you know, some kind of downgrade when you're teaching online. But watching you go through this process and just listening to, you know, to Susie and others who have taken the course, it seems like it's not at all a downgrade or a compromise. It is entirely a different experience for sure than being like on a location for two or three days during a workshop. But it sounds like there's tremendous upside in the size and scope of conversation that becomes possible. Mm-hmm. And being able to follow up and give people time and space to work through lessons and not just having it all in one solitary experience. So it's kind of, it's wonderful to hear that it's not, it's not that teaching online has to be, you know, a certain kind of experience or a worse experience or a cheapened experience. It's that it actually enables a whole new and broader kind of interaction.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd Susie, you said something about how you've taken a lot of online courses before. This one was a unique experience for you.
Susie LaFondYeah, it was. Primarily, online classes tend to be the teacher of the workshop videotaping everything and then putting it out there. I've taken some where the material is presented each week. and is ongoing and then after the class technically finishes up you still have access to all those videos and the PDFs that the teacher may or may not have provided so you get the benefit of the live however it's still not in person live, like through Zoom or FaceTiming or anything like that. And those are awesome, too. I had never taken an online class where there was actually live sessions, you know, based on the time zone and everything that people could tap into. That was a new experience because, yeah, because of how I am and learning early on I I would love to take all kinds of online classes but I know myself well enough to know I'm too much of a sponge so I can't I've taken one in-person workshop and it was years ago from a art doll artist in California and she was here and she taught and I took the class it was just one afternoon and about five minutes in I realized that I was given a literally a 12 inch by 12 inch space at a table while she talked and I'm like I'm not going to be able to create in this environment. Number one, I was too in tune to what she was saying. I'm like a kid in a candy store. I just want to absorb what you're saying and really work while you're saying. As much as I enjoyed it, it wasn't productive for me and what I actually did. I got a lot out of it, but not physically making something. Yeah. So when online classes hit the web, I'm like, wow, I can watch these whenever I want, whether it's at midnight or, you know, noon. And I can continually go back and you can pause and play and pause and play and. stop and want. I mean, they fit a niche for me. It was even cooler when there were portions where we'd sit for an hour and literally talk live. I mean, it added to the experience in that not only could I control when and where I accessed the content, but there was still the live sessions so you could actually talk to you, Sabrina, and talk to the other people that were, you know, in on the session. That was awesome. It was great to hear other people's experiences of where they were at and just sharing all that. That was a whole new level and I loved it. It was awesome.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt was, it's an adrenaline rush too. Like it's, Because you think you know that feeling like before you maybe go on stage or something a musician or an actor may feel like you are a comedian where you say they're like You can say anything like what's gonna come out of your mouth? It's you know, it's not like I had some completely rehearse thing and right, you know you just gotta trust God above it you're like it's gonna speak through me with what how to lead in the moment and It was just and Megan would be you know in the other room just so quietly just I Holding her breath, you know watching things were all working. Okay, and at the end of just a high five and I'm like
Susie LaFondEven with the technical difficulty, yeah, there were a few of those it wasn't a big deal I mean, I don't know from my perspective You know, maybe somebody else would get stressed out about that. I'm like we're talking computers and the internet here Yeah, anything can happen. Yeah, and you just roll with it. Yeah, and
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt was just a total joy to have it and I appreciated everybody's feedback too because and then they get you guys get to get the next version of it because everything we've learned this time through will be applied to the next. roll out in January. What would you say to somebody who has a book inside of them and what kind of was a mental thing that you held on to that really felt like pulled you through for yourself? You would say to somebody.
It would be...
Susie LaFondfollow the spark that you feel inside in terms of a book. And even if it's a book that you just want to share with your family or loved ones, um, or with the whole world, I mean, stay true to that. Um, embrace whatever form it takes. Um, even if it's, um, Sabrina, I think this class is uniquely geared towards people who want to bring a visual element to it. But even if not, even if it were say a book of poems, I think that they could glean knowledge through your experience. because words are their own painting they have their own voice so even if you weren't talking and entirely visual I think the thing is if it's something inside you that you feel you want to share then stick with it don't let anybody tell you that you can't do it or that it's a dumb idea or minimize it at all because if it's in you and you want to let it out, then let it out.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. And, and letting it be hard. You know, I think people think, well, if it's hard, like if you don't know how to do it, I think we don't, we forget that. Like it's, it's going to be hard. And like, okay, that's, that's just going to be it. It's going to totally suck at certain points. You're going to just completely not know what to do, how to do it. You know, and that's a part of the great, crazy, you know, story of making anything that you're putting in the world that's big and truthful and real and embracing that.
Susie LaFondYes. The wildness of that. Yeah. That is so true, Sabrina, because about halfway in, I really, really didn't want to go the tight route. type text business in my book. I wanted it to be all handwritten, but I quickly realized that the amount of writing that I wanted to include was a lot. And I thought, I can't do this all digitally. So I really struggled with that. And there was a point when I'm like, I don't think I can do this. I don't think this is going to visually look the way I see it in my head. And, you know, I battled through it. I mean, I wasn't about to give up by any means, but there was a point when I was really rubbing up against something that didn't feel very good in the process. And I'm like, I'm just going to keep going. I'm going to stay steady. I'm going to figure this out. A little of that was glitchy stuff with book write. That has nothing to do with the class so much. is how the interface of book right works. Once I kind of came to terms with that. And once I started to see how things were falling into place, because I'm really blown away by how it makes sense. When I read the book, I'm like, Oh my God, I actually got it right.
Yeah.
Susie LaFondI there was a certain amount of just inner peace I'm like this is supposed to be so yeah taking jumping over the hurdles that are definitely gonna be there occasionally
Sabrina Ward Harrisonall worth it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm so proud of you, Susie. I can't wait to hold the book in my hands. Can you tell us the title of it? A Childhood Interrupted. Oh. And Susie,
Trenton Reynoldsif people want to see your work or interact with you, is Instagram the way to do that?
Susie LaFondYep, Instagram Susie, Susie in Min, which is Susie in Minnesota abbreviated. Yeah. S-U-S-I-E-I-N-M-N.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd we'll put a link in the show notes too.
Susie LaFondI also have an Etsy shop, but it's somewhat inactive.
What is that one?
Susie LaFondSusie's Muse on Etsy. S-U-S-I-E-M-U-S-E. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Susie.
Trenton ReynoldsIt was so good to talk with you, Susie. Thanks for making the time.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYou are so welcome. Thank you for having me. me. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. In the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram at Sabrina Ward Harrison and at Trent Reynolds Art. And check out the show notes at roominthetrees.com
Trenton Reynoldswhere you can also get in touch if you have any ideas you'd like to share. If you like this
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Trenton ReynoldsPlease help us grow our audience by rating us or writing a review on iTunes. To do that, you can use the link roominthetrees.com forward slash iTunes in any phone or computer internet browser. ♪ ♪