Sam Lamott Trenton ReynoldsYou know what I'm feeling more of though? What? Yeah, a fulfilled life. A fulfilled life, yes. I'm realizing that, yeah, like when I'm working up at the high school and just some of the things that have gone on there, like as a professional, you know, as a... employee, so many of the things that are fulfilling to me about teaching are not present there. And I think that to me is part of what we're trying to do here is not just help people be creative, but help people find fulfillment in that creativity.
That's so true.
Trenton ReynoldsThis show is hosted by Sabrina Ward Harrison and myself, Trent Reynolds. You can find show notes and images and links at our website, roominthetrees.com.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSo you had the art show and then you also had the filming. How did that go?
Trenton ReynoldsOh my gosh, this past two or three, four weeks have just been one thing after the other. So I planned with my little brother who just started a production company. He and my cousin are starting a production company. together. They just bought a really nice camera, an URSA, URSA Mini. It's a Black Magic camera, really like cinema quality, really, really excellent camera. Anyway, they just got that and we're testing it out. And so they came down here from Provo, Utah this last weekend and but it just happened that the only weekend that they had free was the weekend directly following the biggest stressful event of the year for the art department at my school, which is the annual art show. So it was like on Friday, the, the art show at the school went up on Monday and Tuesday was open from Wednesday through Friday opening on Wednesday night, came down at Friday at the end of school, two 30 and, And then Brent shows up at three.
Wow.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd so we go to the studio and do some test shooting, lighting, and stuff like that. And then on Saturday, we shoot this video with my studio mate, David Lloyd. So he and I shot this film. Anyway, I had no time to really prepare that much. I wrote a really quick outline of basic subject matter that we were going to talk about. But it just was one of those things where it was... you get an opportunity and you just got to go, you know, you work with the, you work with the energy and the resources that you have in the moment and you get what you get.
And how did it feel?
Trenton ReynoldsIt actually felt really good. And, and, um, I don't know, because he's my brother, I guess there's more of a familiarity that I feel with him and I feel more comfortable asking him to be more involved in the process. Does that make sense? Yeah. You hire somebody else and there's always going to be that kind of professional distance, which is usually a really good thing, right? You want that kind of separation. But with family, I don't know, having, it really is a nice thing, especially when we're, you know, I'm still in experimental mode with this stuff. It's nice to be able to connect with a camera person on that level. Yeah, what was kind of the vision for it with him? Based on what you and I have talked about, based on the, the. collaborative paintings that we filmed when you were here and just a lot of thoughts that I've been developing over the, you know, the last 10 years really since I've started to try to make videos. I was really interested in taking this really high end or high end compared to anything I've ever used a camera and just experimenting with lighting and how you can use the actual lighting, filming as as part of how the story is told so just really exploring how the subject matter is being represented I don't know and then I went this morning up to La Cunada and sat down with my brother and we talked about just some ideas on visually the type of you know, coloring that we might want to use, color grading for the film and, and types of, uh, texts that might be, you know, that, that could add to the tone of the film. And that's kind of, that was more or less the vision. The, the subject was starting, like we decided just to take on a really easy, like not easy, but specific subject. So he's been teaching for many years and I've been teaching for, you know, over 10 years. And we just basically went through some of the psychology and some of the practical barriers that get in between people and them starting to make work. and which is a topic you and I have also discussed, but, um, and then gave people just a couple really easy, low barrier to entry techniques of how to get started with, you know, materials that they have around them. Can you share one of those? Uh, sure. Yeah. Well, I can share both of them really very, very briefly. The one, um, that I share is a technique that I've used for years. Uh, and that is using either pencil or charcoal pencil to do a drawing and then you can use I typically use matte medium But you can also just use Elmer's glue because it's made out of the same stuff that matte medium is made out of it's the same basic chemical makeup and you you pour the glue on there and When the glue mixes with the carbon or the graphite of the pencil it turns it into acrylic paint basically So you get this nice mixture between pencil line that you get from drawing with a drawing implement essentially and then mixed with this kind of ghosty transparent black pigment. And then if you, you know, one step up from that would be just to add a little bit of white to your palette and start mixing into the mixture of the carbon and the matte medium, mixing in some highlights and value highlights. You know more of a range of mid-tones and values and what paper would you suggest people to use for that? Um, well, it depends on how Aggressive you're gonna be because you're adding something that's fairly wet If you're going to be working in a sketchbook with fairly light paper Then you just can't be very aggressive with it without tearing through the paper because once paper gets wet it gets more fragile So if you wanted, like typically when I use it, I use a really thick either watercolor paper or printmaking paper. And what that does is it allows me to just scrub more aggressively to mix the graphite in or the charcoal in with a matte medium. And it also allows me to then go and paint more layers on top without worrying about buckling and anything. you know, different deformities that paper can sometimes get if it's too thin. But really, you know, even if it's a sketchbook and you're just doing like a little graphite sketch and then take a really like a small brush and just start, you know, painting in some matte medium, What it does is it seals that graphite drawing. If you put it on really thicker and don't agitate the graphite as much, obviously it won't mix in with the matte medium as much. It'll just seal the lines of the drawing. Or if you want to scrub it a little bit more, it will wash the graphite off and mix it into the medium more. But what it does, it'll seal the graphite or charcoal drawing. And then you can do layers on top of it without the graphite then mixing into subsequent layers. Anyway, it's a technique that I've used a lot and I just, I love because I like the mixture of the drawing and the painting, you know, vocabularies as it were.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, it kind of keeps it open.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, and it's just nice back and forth. You can kind of go back to the pencil and, and redo the process too. David showed just his basic approach to doing collage and talked about why collage is a great kind of point of departure. You know, a low barrier of entry to use materials that you already have around you to just sketch essentially and get something down to, to respond to.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhat do you know anything about as far, that's interesting is when you mentioned that collage with stars usage goes as far as copyright usage and stuff, a trademark, if you were to collage using from magazines and things like that, can you do that?
Trenton ReynoldsYeah. So the, the basic idea that I understand and, and I have a, talk to lawyers about this specifically because I've had the question asked a lot in classes and I personally have done collage so I'm interested in as well. It's pretty fuzzy. So, if you were to make a collage using something that you got from a copyrighted source like a magazine. And it was that image and that image had been incorporated into a larger piece of art and it was obscured enough that it wasn't mistakeable as the original image. And you sold the original work of art, you're completely free and clear, like you're not in danger. But if, for example, you were to use an image, it was not obscured very much and looked fairly close to its original, you know, source. And then you made multiple copies of it. so there wasn't a single original work. It was something that was, you know, like in a book and you just made thousands of copies and we're selling copies. It's that reproduction of a copyrighted image that is more of a problem than having a single, you know, original artwork that's created using copyright.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonCause my students are asking that question as far as their books go. And I'm like, Oh, I don't know.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, I think there is, and this is where I get into area that I'm not entirely sure about, but I believe there is something written into law where there's a percentage of alteration. So if it's like 10% alterated from its original, you know, the original image, then it is technically a new work of art. Yeah. But as far as what constitutes a 10% change, that gets a little bit dicey because you could very well argue that just changing its context is changing it completely. But obviously that could be argued. So there is a lot of kind of gray, mushy area there in terms of legality. But I think, again, if it's a single... If there is an original work of art and you're creating that and selling that, you're not in any dicey territory.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI have some sad news to report. I don't know if you heard through the grapevine that Lucy, my sweet dog of 10 years, died.
Oh, man.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, and it's been a profoundly painful. I feel a lot better today. I picked up her ashes, but I've never had to put a dog down. And it happened really fast. It just happened kind of she'd had. I just want to acknowledge it because there was so much support on social media and loving comments. personal stories and I really appreciated that. It was shocking and it kind of goes in waves, but not having children myself, and it's where all my affection and just, it's like, there's a similar oxytocin connection with when a dog and a human, where the love is transferred between the eyes, and, you know, that connection is really deep. So, it was just, she was healthy until she wasn't, and she had a clean bill of health two weeks ago, and I just knew something wasn't right, and I took her in, and... on Friday and they did blood work. I guess on Wednesday they did blood work, got it back on Friday. And they said, she's a very, very sick. And I took her to the vet hospital that night. And the next morning when I went to get, see her, I just knew she was ready to go. And I just like, she'd been running and playing in the garden the day before. And then she was, I was holding her in my arms and having to say, you know, put the needle in her. It was just devastating. It's amazing. Yeah. It just brought me right to my knees as far as you hear stories of people and their dogs and then you just, it's a real reminder about how powerful that connection really can be.
Mm-hmm.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd I have a sweet other dog, Rome, who...
Go ahead.
Trenton ReynoldsI was going to say, she's been with you through a lot. A lot of life has been lived in the last 10 years.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, and Rome has been with her. every minute of every day for 10 years, except maybe a few hours. So the two of them were just very bonded. So he's disoriented and, but yeah, I felt like there was a way that she also said, you know, she kind of was there to the point where she's like, you know, you're good to go. So that was just, I just want to acknowledge that before. Oh, here comes Sam. So today we have a special guest on Sam Lamott. He is a wonderful person and new friend of mine. He's the creator of Hello Humans. um, a website. And also he has his podcast, how to human with Sam Lamott, which you can find on iTunes, which he does wonderful in depth, thoughtful conversations, um, about just being human and, all that comes with that, all the layers, um, He's a wonderfully sensitive, deep, thoughtful person. He's a teen dad, as he describes himself, a teen dad, an ex-Meth Head college dropout who is the founder of Hello Humans.
Trenton Reynolds- Sam, do you feel like you know what you're doing?
Sam Lamott- No, no, I have no idea what I'm doing. I have no idea where I'm going. it's like the way I describe it is I don't know where the path leads, but I know what it, I don't even know where the path is, but I know what it feels like when I'm on it.
What's that for you?
Sam LamottWell, I've been listening to a lot of Alan Watts.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh, he's incredible.
So I have,
Sam Lamottyou know, if you had asked me maybe two months ago, I would have had a different answer because I've been saying that for a long time, but the, you know, incorporating the, My new favorite word, thanks to Alan Watts, which is harmony. It's when you're kind of in what people would describe as the zone or the flow where things are working. And all of a sudden you start, you know, you're making the connections that you need. And the small breaks that you need are happening. Or the little moments of grace are happening. So. I loved podcasts, so I created one. I had an outline or I had a purpose for the podcast, or so I thought I did when I started it, just like I had kind of a rough idea when I started Hello Humans, which started with publishing stories, my stories and strangers' stories. And it's morphing and it's changing and... I need small breaks from it, and it's a one-man show right now, and that's not its final form. So I just keep going. There is a tribe. There's a... Excuse my language. There's a shit ton of people who are... you know, kind of, I guess, in a similar place to where I am, where they don't know what to do, but they know that they want to do, you know, they want to grow in a certain direction. And the personal growth, self-help, landscape is toxic as fuck right now. It's really just, it's disgusting.
Trenton ReynoldsHow would, how would you describe what it is that's disgusting about it? Or what are some of the things that, that rub you the wrong way, I guess?
Sam LamottFor me, it's the same way when somebody tells me that they know without a shadow of a doubt what God is. It's like, it's crazy because nobody knows what God is and I respect all the religions but to say, I know the Catholic God is the right God is, you know, it's crazy and so, you know, The way I look at it is if somebody is telling you that they have the answer, run. Seriously, run. All the best advice I've ever gotten that ever applied was more of like a, hey, try this kind of a suggestion. This might be one of the things that work. This worked for me. and that's not what we're seeing these days. What we're seeing these days are 10 things to make your life better, or these simple five steps, or this will work. And a lot of it's bullshit. And I've gotten to meet a lot of really amazing people, interviewing the people that I've interviewed. And let me tell you, if you just read a self-help book, you kind of have this idea that the person behind it is someone different. And when you go meet that someone, they're a human, and they have human stuff. And maybe they're harsh to their kid or something. You see that they're just as human as you are. I would have to say some guests have definitely... reached an existence that I really believe is possible for me and something that I want to aim towards. But I, I don't think, I think there's a lot of intellectual dishonesty in the self-help kind of area, which is that people are selling solutions and we don't need solutions. We need like, what worked for you. And we need it in that way. I think people need to hear that it's okay to find their own way and they can take what they like and leave the rest. And if it doesn't work for them to keep trying. I know for me, like, I've just always been a kid that liked self-help. I really wanted more out of this existence. And, believing that some things were just a matter of fact and then they didn't work for me has been just harmful to me.
Trenton ReynoldsOne of the things that you, and hopefully I'm not mischaracterizing this, that you said in one of your interviews that really struck a chord with me is that inspiration is found outside yourself, but truth is found in yourself. You said it so much better than that. Like, or be inspired by others, but the truth is within you, or, ah, shoot. I just was listening to it, and it's on the tip of my brain.
Sam Lamottbut something to the I think I said I think I said we're listening for inspiration and looking for answers and we have it backwards is that we should be looking for inspiration we should be reading for inspiration when you read self-help I wish they all had a preface that said, this is just for inspirational purposes. Because when you think about inspiration, it's like you're not trying to copy it completely. You're just trying to grab things that you like. And I believe that when you read something or when you hear something, when you get a piece of knowledge that resonates with you, that is truth to you, that's inside. That's an inside thing. That's not an outside thing. I think that's... that knowledge that was in you, you know, if you're, let's say if you're 30, because if you're 15, you know, maybe you still have some more gathering to do. But when you hear something that feels true, I believe that that's been in you. And you're just, it's just that knowledge recognizing itself in the outside world. I really do. I feel like when I take time to be mindful or meditate, which I actually don't like doing. But let's say when I take time to do it, a lot of the answers, I don't want to say all of them, but a lot of the answers are there. And I don't necessarily have the tools to decode them, but the codex is out there. And I've spent a lot of time not listening. And so I think sometimes I'm very enthusiastic and passionate, obviously, but I really do believe that my journey into healing and my journey into... you know, becoming is like, like the raw data is already there. And that changed specifically when I talked to Jack Kornfield, which is a fantastic interview. And I'm not just saying that because I did it, but yeah, He changed the way I thought about growth, which is that growth isn't like a tree growing a new branch. I'm not trying to grow into Sam 2.0. What I'm trying to do is get rid of all the shit, all the stupid aftermarket parts I've put onto Sam and remove them so I can get down to what Sam is and always has been deep down. my what my spirit is so if I aspire to be a more organized more together person who can answer emails and this is somebody who has 416 unread emails because Sabrina sent me into a tailspin that's another story but what I'll tell you about it later okay um but that organized person is who I truly am. I just need to get rid of the stuff that I've added on top, like the belief that I'm not or the comfort in helplessness because that's something I've realized is that I'm very comfortable being helpless or there's some kind of payoff that to being helpless. I find my way there. And it could be me ignoring emails until they're overwhelming pile and then, oh no, I'm helpless. But what's true is that I have had 20 minutes to clear 50 emails a day. No problem. I just didn't do it. And I think- that's not i think that's to get to helplessness like that's kind of my recent revelation is my i am continually creating these helpless experiences because i i get some kind of payoff
Trenton Reynoldsi don't know you know right some kind of payoff yeah from the helplessness or is it a release from uh accountability or release from i think that's part of it i think it's payoff i i'm
Sam LamottI think it's a release from accountability. I also think it makes me comfortable with all the mess I've created in my life. And I also think that I am terrified about getting knocked down. And, you know, there's one easy way to prevent never being knocked down, and that's to be lying down on the floor.
Trenton ReynoldsRight. Yeah. So you just said something that... my brain is frantically trying to piece together. But in relation to kind of this thing that I've been chewing on today, and that is like, we always tend to look to other people to try to tell us who we are. You know what I'm saying? Like we look to... to projects at school, we look to guidance counselors, like just hungry for some kind of information about who we are, you know, and we look for validation with grades and being able to check off all the boxes. But like you were saying, those answers can't be given by somebody else. You can't find those answers. You can find inspiration. But ultimately, the only way to answer those things is by deciding. And like that agency of deciding. Deciding, yes. Deciding. Totally. Deciding to own what that is, that's already there. I mean, that can be developed and matured and added to, but... But you're never going to find that elsewhere. It's always going to be right there.
Sam LamottAmen. Amen, Trent. Yeah. I mean, here's one thing that I've been focusing on is trusting my intuition a lot more and making those decisions, really prioritizing discernment and making hard decisions. Yeah. and believing them even if they're wrong. Because let me tell you, it's better to have made a decision and be wrong than to always be in this self-doubt, in this painful helplessness. And yeah, it's tough. I have... always been somebody who asked for answers. And I think that's a beautiful skill to have or place of, you know, humility to have. But what you just described is like hardwired into us. I don't know if it's from society or if it's biological, but, But we want heroes and we want people to be more than human and more than us and to be smarter than us and stronger than us and to save us. We want, you know, we want the billionaires and we want the geniuses to come save us. We want Elon Musk to solve our problems. Yeah. And we want Bill Gates to, you know, create the solutions. And it's. like, I don't think it's evil, but I think it's just like, if you're in a place to start instilling this in young people, which is that they need to learn to trust themselves and need to learn that if they try and fail, that's so much better than never doing anything. I'm like in a crazy DIY project right now where- So much is going wrong.
It's great.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, that's, and I think that's kind of what I'm getting at is like my frustration with these past two years being at high school is like, we're doing exactly the wrong thing. You know, we are trying to tell these kids who they are. We're trying to dictate to them rather than. helping them to decide who they are, you know, or empowering them to make that decision, you know, or at least pointing out the necessity of that for them to take accountability or responsibility for that decision, you know, that I can't tell you, I can't give you that answer. And don't expect that of me. You know, that's something that you've got to sit with, and come to on your own.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI feel like there's also this kind of middle place where I really relate to what you were saying, Sam, but like I, I, for so long, I felt like I didn't know I was too sensitive. I didn't have the answer. There was someone else out there that had the answer. and I needed help. And I wasn't good at like, I'm not good at organizing. I'm, you know, I'm too right brain. I'm too sensitive. I'm too, I'm Canadian. I'm just don't want to be intimidating. I, and just to step into like, okay, this is just actually who I am. I'm this
Trenton Reynoldsand I'm this. Sam, is, is there a way that you would define or characterize the conversation that you're trying to have in your podcast? Like I know you said you had something, some things in mind or a purpose for doing it. Is it, is that something that you could verbalize?
Sam LamottI feel like I want to make the type of content that I don't think anyone can change someone else's life. I think that's an inside job. And I think anytime somebody's life has drastically changed there to credit with some help along the way, you know, from other people. But, And what I'd like to create is moments of reprieve, like moments where you can breathe and where you feel like yourself for a moment, even if you didn't five minutes before, like when you're walking down the street and you're in one of those like really. shitty moods, one of those really awful attitudes and everything's going wrong. And you walk past somebody who has like that contagious smile and you get like a hit of it. You get like 30 seconds where you just catch it and you might go right back to having the worst day ever, but those 30 seconds right there, that moment was magic. And
yeah.
Sam LamottWith the conversations, I feel like as a host, what I bring to the table is I'm willing to be me. I'm willing to be flawed, and I'm willing to be imperfect. I'm not selling any life plans. I'm not selling anything right now, at least, but I'm not selling anything right now. I'm not even selling an image that I know what I'm doing. And so if you don't know what you're doing, you have me trying to ask questions from a similar place where I pick people that I think are doing one thing right in life And they could be totally screwed up in other ways. But I think that they've got a handle on one thing that's really nice. I think that when they do it in their own lives, it's something beautiful. And I want to highlight that. But it's really about two humans connecting. And they just happen to be... exceptional humans and there are connections that I didn't anticipate like J.R. Rhodes who's one of the more recent interviews is a street musician or she was the highlighted featured musician at the Seattle Airport she was playing in the Seattle Airport and we just connected and I had her on the podcast. The episode was fantastic. That was like two artists mid-struggle, not on the mountain, not looking back from the top of the mountaintop and trying to congratulate themselves about how they got up the mountain, but really just on the trail trying to figure out how to keep going. Mm-hmm. And Paul Williams, who is another guest of the podcast, the Oscar-winning composer and Grammy-winning composer, both, he heard the podcast and invited her down to ASCAP, which is the songwriters convention. put her in touch one of her songs she's working on got got some help and got worked on by daryl brown this incredible producer she got co-writing co-writing opportunities with other great writers who are kind of more established than she is and she got to get this trip that is like you know uh world-class inspiration and got to make connections that are really going to help in the long run. And that happened because of the podcast. Like that's,
that's a little thing.
Sam LamottI don't necessarily know what the outcome of every episode is. I don't have a list of questions when I start, but I know one thing I admire about the person and I know where, where it might go and, And we just do the deal. And four people have said that a conversation they heard helped them decide to not commit suicide. Helped be the inspiration. And a few of them sent me the letters that they had written. Now, I don't count the other stuff, but other cool things have happened in this tribe where people kind of woke up and they left an abusive partner. We've had a lot of those. Or a therapist said, you know, I had a client I couldn't quite reach and I knew that this would help and I sent him home with it or sent her home with it. And they came back and they got something out of it. And so we each, everybody draws their own meaning from these types of things. But I think that the overall theme is vulnerability. I think every guest or almost every guest has been willing to meet me there. Has been willing to put a little bit of skin in the game and, you know, drop the image. Speaking of Paul Williams, we recorded an hour and afterwards he looked at me and he said, we need to do that completely over. from scratch because I showed up as an entertainer and I realized what this program is and I want to wow I want to show up as Paul not as Paul Williams Wow Sam and we we sat down and we recorded another hour and that's one of the it's an early episode I think episode three that's one of the most powerful episodes ever I mean that's one of the most powerful conversations I've certainly ever heard and I I've heard similar, but that's the type of magic that is on this world, is when two people commune and get each other. And there's so much scripted interactions. You see somebody and, hey, how are you doing? And you say, oh, I'm fine. How are you? Oh, I'm good. How are the kids? Good. How's the weather? Good.
Yeah.
Sam LamottAnd I was at the airport the other day, and I asked the woman behind the counter, "How
are you?"
Sam LamottAnd she said, "I'm awful. Do you want my job? I'm terrible." And I just started laughing, and I had to apologize for laughing. And I just, I appreciated that that was probably the first authentic thing, authentic conversation I had had that day was this person telling me, things aren't well, I'm not okay. I don't want to be here right now.
And.
Sam LamottAnd, you know, unfortunately, she was in so much pain, but she was in so much pain that for a moment she was willing to tear the mask off. I'm human, too. I put the mask on all the time. But when you have a moment that you take it off with somebody and you guys get to see each other, that's magic. And sometimes you can capture that.
Trenton ReynoldsI thought your recounting of how you found J.R. in the airport was... It was wonderful. It was just a really, such a strong mental image for me. I can imagine. I love that too. You know, imagine that exchange or that moment.
Sam LamottThat was a happy accident because I was recording all this field work because I thought I was doing a program on my dad dying. And so I was kind of documenting all the different trips I was taking, interviewing all my dad's old friends and relatives and. for what I thought was going to be another, you know, kind of narrative-driven audio program about discovering who my dad was after he died. And so I just happened to have all this recordings, and it actually makes me want to go, shoot, maybe I should record more of the traveling to the guest. Because... These sounds are, you know, yeah, the airport sound was awesome. And her plane for the first time was just, what a happy accident.
Trenton ReynoldsI think that's one of the things that artists, like one of the unique things about art making, perhaps. I don't know, maybe it's not unique to art, but the happy accident. Like you go in with a certain intention or an idea in your mind of what you're going to do. And then the art can tell you or dictate something new, you know, that you are surprised and delighted by and or that is a direction that you would have never chosen. But there's this kind of, I don't know, back and forth between the creation and the creator that we're both kind of become something, you know, bigger than us. themselves, if that makes sense. But the idea of a happy accident, I think, like that idea could be taken into, or that principle, I think, could be seen and exercised in daily life, you know, where you don't dictate when you step out the door what's going to happen and how you're going to respond, but having a certain amount of openness to allow experience to find you, you know. I think that's something I love about art that I would love to teach to kids.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat kind of takes me back to Alan Watts. Trent, remember when we did that thing? Yeah, Harmony. The Harmony. And we did that thing where we were in downtown Los Angeles. And we created the project room in the trees in this sort of thing in my parents' backyard. And then we went down to downtown LA. We did a rubbing with charcoal on the sidewalk and kind of made it into this graph that and decided that we follow this random, only controlled by the marking, the marking rubbing of the sidewalk, that that's where like, that's where some magic thing was. We'd go, you know, the blocks in downtown and we went into some weird old hotel and, Just like letting them, you know, I'm such a believer in that. I love that.
Trenton ReynoldsThe two guys at the front desk had cell phone pictures of a ghost that had occupied that lobby. That was fantastic. Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI was listening to a lot of Alan Watts when we were doing River of the Trees, that's for sure. And my disc man, that and Joseph Campbell, like unheard recordings, like some old others. That need to also get out in the land, get out in nature, to have those kind of, some of those epiphanies is so important. I kind of miss that right now.
Trenton ReynoldsSam, do you, besides doing audio recording, do you have other creative outlets or things that you're artistically involved in?
Sam LamottYeah, I write, I draw. I'm really excited to make some videos. I do a ton of stuff. What I publish, I used to show sculptures in gallery. That used to be something where I really was into and really wanted to show. I love drawing and sharing that on social media. I love writing, which isn't like a disciplined practice, but I'm I love writing short stories, short pieces. Yeah, so I have a lot of different interests.
Trenton ReynoldsIs any one of those media dominant, or do you find they all kind of get to a different thing?
Sam LamottI don't know. Besides the podcast, of course. Yeah, I mean, I love writing. I think I love drawing more than I love writing, but I write more than I draw, so take what you will from that.
But...
Sam LamottI don't know. You know, I love creating and the second I need a break, like I needed a break from the podcast. I kind of had a huge crash lately. It's just got this depressive bout that just knocked me to my ass and I'm I, you know, I want to show up as is and these, the intros to the latest conversations I want to release where I was, I couldn't have recorded the intro that I know should go with that conversation. So, I took a break and I've been working with my hands you know I used to write curriculum for a trade school, like a maker space. And so, I've collected a ton, you know I used to do sculpture so I've collected a ton of tools, and I rented an office finally and I've been building it out, and it's going to be. my first professional studio that's not in my house. That's awesome. Yeah, it's been really nice to work with my hands. And that's creative. You know, that's problem solving. It's like, how are we going to lay out these lights? So, you know, if I shoot a YouTube video in here, it's going to look good. How and you know, how are we gonna? Acoustically treat this place where it also is visually appealing because I had a sound room in my last place but it was just ugly as hell so making these acoustic panels that look kind of like a piece of art was a
Trenton Reynoldsdifferent challenge I too have I made acoustic panels and was very pleased with them as like aesthetic objects, you know, not just their function, but like it was kind of fun putting them up and seeing them.
Sam LamottThat's the best feeling. You know, sometimes when I create something, like sometimes when I write or draw, I just feel like it's absolute dog shit for a while. It's like not till I look at it like a week later that I even remotely am OK with it. But sometimes you're lucky enough where you create something like these sound panels and you just sit back and you look back and go, yeah, I'm awesome. My first thought was like, man, I'm going to make a great husband one day. Look at this. Can you can, you know, can that person's husband make acoustic panels? I don't think so.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat's awesome. Sam, I think it was when I first found you on social media after hearing you on an interview, I think. But you and your stories, I think that's when I first made a comment and your message responded, was when you were doing that yerba mate jerry-rigged thing with tools and like. Like you were in the middle of doing some... You're a Ramate. Yeah. Remember that? And you like didn't have... Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you were like... But you were in the middle of kind of doing stuff down in your like workroom. It was just with power tools and... And wood and showing your son some, it was just like this whole situation. And then I don't know how the Yerba Mate came into it, but it was like this, I fully approve with all that's going on right now.
Sam LamottThat was a good, you know how many, I made some friends with that Yerba Mate. Who else came out of the woodwork? Who else is that? Oh, gosh. Kelly Freeman Craig, who wrote and directed Edge of 17 with Woody Harrelson. She reached out, too. I made two high profile friends from that year. You hear Ramon. I'm so glad that's what connected us. That was so funny.
Trenton ReynoldsI keep on wanting to ask you, Sam, who are you? Because I make other people say that? God, you do. Maybe you do. Is that why that keeps on coming up?
Who am I?
Sam LamottI'm an old, sensitive soul, and I always have been, even since I was a little kid. I was really worried about death as a little kid and worried about things that little kids don't worry about anymore. And I was sensitive. And the world really overwhelmed me in ways. And it took me a lot of time to learn how to be a part of it. For a lot of years, I just watched and listened and studied and tried to figure out how I could fit into it all. I was very shy. I was very shy. and I'm also a terrible addict and alcoholic. So when I discovered weed and alcohol and cocaine and mushrooms and LSD and all, you know, everything, it was like such a crazy, amazing way to get out of myself and get to experience the world without all these things. thoughts happening all the time without my over analytical, insane, sensitive mind running. And unfortunately, I nearly destroyed myself and I nearly destroyed someone else high on meth and, you know, in like a meth induced rage. And so I spent 10 years kind of fucking off and causing damage and not growing until I came out of it at 22 really confused again. Except I was no longer a 9-year-old who was confused about life and unsure of everything. I was a 22-year-old who was kind of expected to know stuff. and kind of expected to learn, you know, to be able to hold down a job and pay my rent and hold friendships and be a boyfriend and all this stuff that you kind of, you know, you're supposed to get the building blocks of as an adolescent. I just hadn't had any of them. So for the last seven and a half years, I've been sober. I've been clean and sober. It's been a crazy journey. You know, saying this morning to some folks, Like, I thought all my problems had to do with being drunk or high. And when I stopped getting drunk or high, I realized that, like, all my problems have to do with, like, my crazy, neurotic, alcoholic, addicted, and addict brain, right? but it's been a slow recovery. You know, I, just when I think I have it figured out, something else happens, and I clearly don't. And I think I'm mostly okay with that, and I've gotten really comfortable in my own skin for the most part, most of the time, but there's no absolutes, you know. I never say, like, I'm cured, and I was shy and neurotic, and now I'm not, you know. but I've learned how to be in the world a bit more, and I enjoy what I've learned, and life is still also complex and painful at times. I was just saying, I... really got my ass handed to me for the past year. I've been mostly unmedicated and really, you know, seeing how far I could push the bar with diet and exercise and sleep and, you know, meditation and all this stuff. And I was, I'm really proud of what I was able to do. I really did push the bar, but. I got hit by a big one, and so I'm back on antidepressants. Part of me feels like, oh, I failed. I don't think that's true.
No.
Sam LamottBut I don't know if that answers your question. I like to make things. I like people and the right doses. Yeah. I like animals and I want to live publicly and learn how to live in a way that other people can enjoy and can be a part of. I want to find others.
Trenton ReynoldsThat absolutely answers my question. And I hate to keep on trying to bring this back to my original thought, but it's just so deeply on my mind right now. And that is... What we need, I think, now more than ever is people being willing to say that they don't know what they're doing because nobody knows what they're doing. You know, that's the that's the terrible and wonderful truth is that nobody has a clue. You know, and I think we need more voices out there just sharing their path, sharing the things that have worked and failed.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd admitting that it's hard. And, you know, no matter what you do, no matter how many steps you follow and how good a person you are, it's hard. And the answers are there, but they're for you to find and not for somebody else to dictate.
Totally. Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsAnyway, so I appreciate that about your interviews and about the voice that you bring to the conversation.
Sam LamottYeah, I mean, the tagline of Hello Humans as a whole is, if you believe what you see, you believe we look like our profile pictures, that our lives are the stories that we curate for the public. But- Our real, quirky, messy, actual human experience is captivating and magnetic because you can see yourself in the story. And we're not letting ourselves be seen. And so everybody feels like a fraud because they're comparing themselves to the curated story of everyone else. Even in face-to-face interactions. How are things? Fine. How – like are you willing to live in a way that's that's honest with the the people that you love most so they can be honest with you and you guys can go wow i'm fighting with my spouse too and i still love her but it's difficult i really you know do you have any experience with this rather than just how things are fine Kids are great. Kids are never great. They're complex.
Trenton ReynoldsThey're always chaos.
Oh, goodness.
Trenton ReynoldsCan I ask you what your favorite snack is?
Sam LamottMy favorite snack is... Well, I guess it depends on what crazy new diet I'm on at the time. Right now, since I've been doing so much physical labor, I've kind of just let myself eat whatever I want.
So...
Sam LamottI love sweets, I love paydays, and I love carrot cake.
Trenton ReynoldsPaydays and carrot cake. I'm just throwing that out there.
Sam LamottI mean, not at the same time. I've never tried a payday carrot cake combo, although that does sound like a strong combination. I think you've got to try that. That sounds fantastic. What my favorite snacks are. I'm less of a snack kind of person. I'm more of like a gorger. Right? Like, it's the way I do everything.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonTotally.
Sam LamottI'm not really a snack-driven person, but I'll eat a burrito and thing of chips to myself and then feel disgusting. Yeah. and somehow enjoy that enough to come back and do it again next week, next week, in three days.
Trenton Reynolds- Is that the desert island food? If you had to choose one food that you had to live on primarily for the rest of your life, would it be a burrito?
Sam Lamott- Oh God, no. If I was forced to live on one thing for the rest of my life and it would somehow be nutritious, it'd be something healthy. If there wasn't all these vices around me everywhere, I'd be fine. Like, when I'm on a healthy diet, after I, like, detox from the sugar and all that stuff, like, I'm good. But the second I cave, this is why I don't drink or use drugs. Like, the second I cave, Trent, the second I have, like, a taste of somebody's carrot cake, I'm gone. I'm gone, and I'm eating everything. I'm going to 7-Eleven. I'm getting apple fritters. I'm getting a lot of food. and hot dogs and the fake chili cheese and everything. So if I had to live off one food, I'd definitely pick something like beautiful and nourishing because I think I would enjoy it after about a week. Like I always enjoy healthy food after about a week.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. God, but burritos are really good, though, in California.
Sam LamottThey are, but they're too big. And I don't know, like, somebody needs to be... They are too big. People, there needs to be legislation. I want responsible burrito makers out there. That make the proper portion that doesn't make you sick, because we're never... We're not going to keep it for later. We always mean to, but you eat the whole thing, and then you feel disgusting. It's really a problem.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, it's kind of – that last couple bites is the tastiest part because it's got the little –
Sam LamottYou know, though, while you're eating those last bites, you know if I stop now, I'll be fine. If I don't finish this, I'll be okay. And then you do it anyway. Then you eat it, and you, of course, are too full.
Yeah. Yeah.
Sabrina Ward Harrisonfor the little nub of the tortilla.
Sam LamottOh my God, the nub's the best. And it's not like the front nub. No, no. It's not as good. It's way better than the front nub.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, I wonder if that's because you've been holding it and so it's a little bit more compressed and maybe it's had time to get a little chewier.
Sam LamottYeah, the juice, everything's collected down there. You know, all good things, like precious metals always go to the bottom. Like all the good things weigh more and are heavier and are just going to make its way down into the nub.
Trenton ReynoldsMaybe we could start a line of burrito nubs. I don't know how we manufacture that, but I think there's got to be a way.
Sam LamottI'm convinced somebody can make a complete healthy meal in a burrito form factor. I'm convinced of it. I'm so convinced I thought about engineering such a thing for myself, but I know it exists. There's the right amount of protein and you could do it. Someone could do it.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOkay, one last question. What was the thing about why am I somehow connected to the email?
Sam LamottThe 400 emails? Oh, my God. Sabrina, my whole life has fallen apart because of you. Inadvertently. Apparently, I was much closer to the edge than I realized before. Because like things seem to be going good. And I was on like this great track and a podcast was coming out every week. And then you called me and you told me to like push your podcast first. So like I stopped the podcast I was editing on halfway and started working on our podcast, our episode. And something about that like happened. screwed me up and I've been out for three weeks like I had a complete meltdown like I and this is a great lesson it's not actually it's not actually you what it is is like I learned something important which is that I you know I can't screw with my process again and so what I should have said is like, oh, no, I can't do it. I can't get your podcast out in time.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, totally.
Sam LamottAnd so it was my own mistake, but I was enthusiastic, and I wanted to help cross-promote that class, which I hope is going awesome. But what happened is I had a system that was working, and apparently it was built very fragile. Yeah. uh and it got and it got thrown off and it it it triggered i guess some stuff that's been been there because you know i rarely think it's the you know what triggers it is the actual problem uh rarely do i i think that so i think that if you get infuriated at somebody like that was just like like that rage was kind of there you know yeah and they just they just triggered it but um Yeah, that's what started this lovely cycle. That was like the unraveling moment. I hope some of my listeners are listening here so they can understand what has happened and that it's all Sabrina's fault.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYikes. Oh, no. Wow.
Sam LamottYeah. My apologies. I learned such a valuable lesson, which is if I'm on a certain production schedule, at least while it's just me, I'm hoping to grow the team a little bit. But at least while it's just me, got to stick to my guns. Absolutely. What do you call it when you do something last minute?
What's that called?
Sam Lamottno like spontaneous 11th hour projects like everything needs room to breathe and so I know what to say next time somebody calls and is like ah can you publish this episode early like nope Sorry, Sabrina screwed it up for everybody. There you go. Shit.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh, bro. No, I did not know that it was, I didn't realize that it was off, it was in a different order than that. I just assumed it was the next one you were doing, so. Yeah. I totally apologize.
Sam LamottNo, no apology necessary. I have an amazing audience because I've been very clear that I'm emotionally unstable. So, you know, people are really forgiving of my current form.
Trenton ReynoldsIt's one of the wonderful things about podcasting, I think, is it kind of sets up a different relationship with your audience. Like, I don't know, I feel like it's more personable and more gracious or, you know, people are willing to give you a little bit more space.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's so good for introverts too, like us, like Trent and I. Well, thank you so much, Sam. And so let's just make sure we have your, what information do we need? So you are at Sam Lamont. Do you want to give us your scoop just so we have all the language?
Sam Lamott- When I'm emotionally well, I'm on Instagram and I'm @samlamont or @hellohumans.co. There's websites and there's the things and you can Google me and find all that stuff. But that's where I am when I'm well.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd they can find your podcast on iTunes.
Sam LamottOh, yeah. And I have a podcast. It's called How to Human. It's everywhere but YouTube. I haven't figured out how to get it on YouTube yet. But it's on Spotify. It's on iTunes. It's on Google Play. All of the things. All of the places.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, I'm excited to see what you do in your new studio space. It's such a fun thing to start setting up and getting into.
Sam LamottOh, man. I can't wait to show it off. I can't wait for it to be over now. Now I've been doing it for like a week straight. I'm like, all right, enough working with my hands. I'm ready to do computer work. Good luck with that.
Trenton ReynoldsSounds like a great project.
Thank you.
Trenton ReynoldsWe'd like to thank Sam for a wonderful conversation. I wanted to take a moment to give a quick shout out to a specific episode on how to be human. If you're looking for a place to start with Sam's podcast, I would recommend the episode with Jack Conte, who is the founder of... uh, Patreon. They had a conversation that I was really, uh, blown away by. So I'd, I'd recommend that episode and thank you, Sam, for the time and, uh, great to meet you and talk to you.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThank you, Sam. We'd love you to take a moment and leave us a review on iTunes. Uh, you mean a lot to us and Patreon.
Trenton ReynoldsWe would love it if you went and subscribed, uh, at Patreon and show your support there.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonUh, thanks Sam. And we will see you guys next week.