Hey. Hi. It is... Hi.
Trenton ReynoldsIt's May 19th, 2018. This is Room in the Trees, a podcast about...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonCreativity and life and making...
Trenton ReynoldsI love how confident that was. You were really confident right there.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonToday's been a big day. Today, I got up at 5.15, 5.30 to watch the royal wedding begin.
Trenton ReynoldsHappy, happy wedding day, royals.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYou didn't even know that was happening.
Trenton ReynoldsWe are so happy for you. This is episode 50, Contour. A Room in the Trees is brought to you by Sabrina Ward-Harrison and me, Trent Reynolds. And Sabrina, it's been a while. What's going on?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI'm getting ready for my, I think it's going to be my only in-person retreat, True Living Experience of 2018, which will be in Portland July 20th through 22nd. And there's, it's a small, it's a small situation and there's a few spaces left. So you can go to, if you want to sign up, highly recommend it, both for making books and I bring all my archive of all my pages of all my books is in Portland, so I'm going to actually bring original pages from Spilling Open and a couple of other, and my original stuff from Brave Bird Rocks to the workshop too. So that's, I just said my website, SabrinaWardHarrison.info, and under retreats. So there's a lot in the works right now. and really in the zone creating. It's exciting.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd it's good to be back recording an episode. Today we cover a lot of ground and hope you enjoy it. Here it is. That helps solve the problem. Nothing is going to stop us. Nothing. Nothing is going to stop us. What song is that? Nothing is going to...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonNothing is going to stop you.
Trenton ReynoldsNothing is going to stop us now. And we will... oh i miss you friend it's been a long time
Sabrina Ward HarrisonLife is happening.
Trenton ReynoldsLife is happening. Well, I'm going to let you decide what to share and what not to share. You've got a myriad of things that have happened since our last recording that you could choose from to share. I'll let you go. What's going on?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWell, yeah, there's some exciting things on a couple of different planes, but Corey and I got engaged. and I haven't gotten to even talk to you about it yet.
Trenton ReynoldsFantastic.
Yep.
Trenton ReynoldsCan you share the story, or is it something you'd rather keep?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAbsolutely, and I know we'll have to have him on too and maybe share something together. But we went up to this door county, this small little town called Ephraim. I think I'm pronouncing it correctly. That's just... just a beautiful quiet little town that we'd stayed at last year at the same time. We stayed at the same place and we had been talking about it a lot and kind of, you know, we're talking that it was something that was going to be happening. and we, um, And it was, I had taken a bath with this awesome place, had this cool, it's like the kind of layout I would love to have for a house. Like there's kind of a big bathtub in the middle of the bedroom that opens to the living room, to the kitchen. It was just this cool space. So I was in my pajamas and we went out to look at the stars and I saw this big beautiful shooting star and And then he walked out to this dock and it was beautiful and quiet. And then he kind of was standing behind me and had his arm around my waist and he started talking. And it was like, oh, yes, I think this is happening. Oh, my gosh. And and.
Trenton ReynoldsLike what kind of things was he saying that clued you in?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonHe said, you know, he started to talk. He was reading. It was quite long, and he was reading something. It was just beautiful, and it was about when he first, you know, It was really lovely. I was wanting it to be kind of very private and personal. And I love that I was in my pajamas and it was just so sincere. Then we got in bed and we watched Mr. Rogers. So, it was awesome. Yeah. Yeah, so it's what I kind of wasn't prepared for is because I've never really have visualized myself, you know, getting married or the idea of engagement or wearing a diamond ring or something. And when we announced it, it's such a rite of passage, just celebratory. I hadn't really thought. you know, thought about that. Like, it's like such a congratulations. Like, it's this whole thing. Yeah. That I hadn't, I mean, I knew people would be, it just was, it's cool. It's very, yeah. It's wonderful. It's very new. It's something I've never knew how... And I like it at this stage in my life. I definitely love that it's just happening now.
Trenton ReynoldsDo you feel a shift or a change in the nature of your relationship with Corey, or is that...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, I think there's like a calm that came over me afterwards, like the next day. It was like, we're just, we're doing this together. We're doing this life together that I love. I love.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThat is fantastic.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. How did you propose to Laura?
Yeah. Well...
Trenton ReynoldsI'm debating whether or not I should tell you about the first time I proposed to her that I told her not to tell anybody about it. Oh. So it's not that embarrassing. I can share. But essentially, she had been living at my parents' house for the summer. so we could be closer together. She was, she's from Delaware. Yeah. And had planned on going back to Delaware for the summer, and I was just starting to teach at SMC at the time. and was living in Pasadena. So she was living with my parents. She had been there the whole summer. In her mind, she thought I was going to be proposing a lot sooner than I did, but I never quite felt like it was the right time, and I wanted to feel like we were okay just being together before I... Anyway, so it was at the end of the summer and she was kind of at her end, you know, just feeling frustrated that things hadn't really gone how she intended. And we drove up to a lookout in La Cunada that... my friends and I used to go up to... Oh, I know those bad look... Yeah. You know to look at. Yeah. And it was like at the end of a weekend night, even if my friends and I had been doing something else, you know, not all together, we would, you know, end up just driving up there for a few minutes and hang out just to talk and... So it was a place that I like to go just to talk and it's got the nostalgia. Anyway, so we were up at the lookout, kind of cheesy. We're in the back seat, just not doing any, you know, it was just back seat so we could talk and be close together. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Okay. Yeah. So anyway, I just had this feeling in that moment that it was, you know, that I could speak those words comfortably. And so I, there in the backseat of the Toyota Camry with both of our legs sticking up through the center, you know, between the two front seats. Yeah. I asked her, it was like not kneeling, not nothing. Just, she was, I was just holding her and asked her if she'd marry me. And then I told her, told her not to tell anybody that I would propose in a more, you know, story worthy fashion. Yeah. which I did the next night. The next night, she wasn't anticipating that I'd move so quickly because I don't move very quickly on anything. But we were going to go down to visit her friend who was staying in Laguna Niguel at a beach house. And I called ahead, I called him and, you know, asked him if he'd be willing to set up a blanket on the beach with a bunch of, like, with a candle and, you know, some... some treats. And when we got to the beach, he was coming up from the beach and he said, well, why don't you guys go down to the beach and I'll be right back. I'm going to go, you know, whatever. And so we went down to the beach and we had a kind of arranged where he would set things up. And there was a blanket all laid out nice with a candle and he really did an awesome job setting it up for us. So and then I
Sabrina Ward HarrisonNelton proposed her that that's beautiful. That's beautiful. So it's gotta be so nerve-wracking to do it. My gosh Yeah, I Just yeah
Trenton ReynoldsDid Cory call and ask your dad's permission?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYes, that was the best. We had, that night, we'd gotten up there, and then he went out to pick up steaks for us. He was bringing back steaks, and he went to the restaurant while he was waiting for the food. He FaceTimed my dad, and my dad and Gretchen were there, and he said, you know, I've got to have a man-to-man conversation, and so my dad went out onto the street balcony and Corey asked for you know they were FaceTiming and my dad cried and Corey cried and yeah so it's funny because then he came back and and he was, you know, we're serving at dinner, and I was like, God, I miss my dad, and he, I've got to show him this, you know, where we are, and so I was doing a little video, and I was videotaping, and Corey's saying, yeah, John, you know, this is what we're doing, here we are, and I haven't talked to you in so long, and little did I know they'd just been, you know, FaceTiming me.
You know.
Trenton ReynoldsFaceTime crying together.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's been forever, man. Yeah. So I love that he did that. I love that that happened right before. And it was just, and then it was my, it happened on my grandmother's 99th birthday. And so we called, she was the first person we told in the morning. We called her and told her. And yeah. Wow. Yeah, so it's tricky. It's not tricky. I mean, there's elements of tricky because here we are in the middle of the country. It's like, you know, just think about where we'll get married. I don't, I have no idea. Probably around here, but it's just like the tribe is in all different places.
Right. Yeah.
Trenton Reynoldsbut well that is such a great story and uh i can imagine in my mind's eye all of it and it's just
Sabrina Ward Harrisonwonderful you were one of the first people when after i met him right because we recorded that like right after you got it on the podcast
Trenton ReynoldsYeah. Was it 16 something? 17 in Birdhouse.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonBut I remember the week before, two weeks before, we'd done Chicken and Sweet Potatoes, and I was the chickeness or something. And I told you about the date, and then he came on. He came on quickly after that, right? That's right. Wasn't that just, yeah. He did. Yeah, but he says to say hi. Hi. so yeah um what's happening in your world i am on spring break and have been for the past uh
Trenton Reynoldsi get two weeks yeah last week we spent the week in prescott arizona with uh laura's brother uh and his family live there So we went to go visit them and the girls got to play with their cousins and it was great. It was a nice relaxing week other than the fact that Laura and I were both really sick. Like, yeah, it was just one of those... I'm still kind of froggy from it, but... Anyway, that's... And then this week, we've been back in L.A., and I've gotten to spend more time in the studio and just catching up on lots of stuff that I haven't been able to get done. Before I get into what I want to bring up, you've got some kind of class thing going on that I'm...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, I am going to parlay this in 20 years of teaching... leading these workshops into my first online course and it's a whole thing. It's there's, you know, so much interest all around the world and I, I kind of can't get all the way, you know, to all these places. And so I really excited about the, the new possibilities and formats and ways to interact and, um, engage with people and do it in a creative way and my own random style. I think that's the epiphany I came to yesterday and the day before was like, I got to just do this the way Sabrina would do this. This is going to be like, just, it's going to be its own thing. And I was like, I'm going to, cause I was like, do I have to write a script? I'm like, no, that's not how, uh, I'm just going to talk. I'm just going to talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. I mean I'll have my outline and my points but I'm just going to be really natural and just like I'm talking on the podcast yeah so I signed up for Kajabi
Trenton Reynoldsbut I think it's funny that all of these different I've come across so many different like websites and services that are trying to do these different things And it just never ceases to amuse me how the names that these people come up with. So I'm going to write that down. Kajabi, how do you spell that?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonK-A-J-A-B-I, I think.
Trenton ReynoldsK-A-J-A-B-I.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonBut it does all of it. It does all the... all of it all of it so it does all of it it's a platform that hosts and does the whole thing all the way through check out the emails the host the videos creates a whole blueprint
That's awesome.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. So I'm working with this great girl named Annabelle who I was just, I was thinking I need to do this. I'm like, where do I begin? How do I even begin to do this? And she reached out to me on Facebook and she had taken a workshop for me in Maine about 10 years ago. And she said, you know, I'm teaching how to, how to put your own course together. And I was like, boom, let's talk. So going through it with her.
Perfect.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. So I'm deep into that right now, and I'm really excited. So if anyone's listening and they're interested, if you go to my website, SabrinaWardHarrison.info, there'll be a pop-up window as soon as you get there, and you can just put your email into that and... I will announce when the class opens up for registration. Awesome. It will be another month or so.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, as you learn and as you go along and have this experience, I would love to just get continual updates because, as you know, it's something that I've attempted and done a bunch of different things. trial things and never really found the quite, quite the right, you know, combination of things. But, you know, it makes me think that there are, there are like when you go and you say, I want to do this online and you type that into Google and there's all sorts of tutorials and people with ideas on how, what you've absolutely have to do. And this is the way to do it. Just like making art, you know, you can type in a search for how to do this in art and there's going to be somebody to tell you this is absolutely how you have to do it. But you know, what I'm finding is that just like you're saying, it's like if you're going to do this, you got to do it a way that works for you. And if that, you know, there are so many different avenues, even online. you know, to pursue some kind of community and communication, so you just gotta work through it and find the way that works for you.
Sabrina Ward Harrison- And it can really, really mess with your head if you start, you can just go down these rabbit holes of like, oh, there's this way, and people are doing it that way, and this person's already got this, figured out. Exactly. Their website looks more professional.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd tomorrow you're going to find something that like, oh, well, this has this little thing and maybe I should do that. But ultimately, I mean, you've just got to, it comes down to what's going to actually get you to produce something, you know?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYep. And it's all about the content. Just like, yeah.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah. I am the king. Well, I'm king tinkerer, but I'm also, like, I get distracted by all the options and all the things and this is what I should do and this is... And it's the same thing like thinking, well, as soon as I've got a studio, then I'll make artwork or as soon as I've got the right pencil, then I'll start drawing or, you know.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsIt's just, you know, noise that keeps you from making your stuff.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI know, you really have to set, like I have to set, what I need to do is set the date. That's what I haven't done, that it's going to be done, it's going to be launched. Because I just, as she was saying to me, it's like you're going to tinker with it, you're going to revise, do different things, you just have to put it out there for people.
Trenton ReynoldsYep, absolutely. And even this podcast was, you know, took us quite a while to, before we actually published the first podcast.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd then we just did it and we're just doing it. And I miss doing it. I was saying to Corey, it's like, it's very centering.
Yeah. For me. Yeah, me too.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThese conversations.
Trenton ReynoldsIt's one of the, actually, I believe it might be the only thing that Laura is completely 100% behind. As far as all my harebrained ideas and attempts, she's like, the podcast actually feels like something that works for you.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, that's what Corey says too. He's like, when are you recording again? I'm like, I don't know. He said he's happy to help with audio editing too.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, that's good to hear. All right. We could definitely use it.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhat do you use for audio editing?
Trenton ReynoldsI have been using Final Cut Pro, which is a video editing software. But I just find it easier to navigate and also to publish. So I can have it automatically published both to YouTube, export it as an MP3, and Patreon if I wanted to, you know. So it kind of... But if he's working on PC, though...
Yeah. I'm not sure.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonHe works on PCs and PC and a Mac.
Trenton ReynoldsRight, right. I'd have to think about that. There are many good options out there for simple audio editors, and Audacity is a free one that's pretty commonly used, but... Shoot, I'm not going to be able to... C-I-T-Y. C-I-T-Y, yeah. Why can't I? Audacity. And then GarageBand for Mac is fantastic. Is it? Yeah, it does a credible job and is more user-friendly than most. And if you're more pro at Mac, you could do Logic, which is a little bit more advanced. But I've gone back and forth between Logic, GarageBand, and just using Final Cut. And Final Cut Pro, for some reason, is just easier for me to deal with. So that's what I do.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhat's your latest snacking thing?
What's my latest... Go-to. That...
Trenton ReynoldsI don't know if I have a latest. What about you? Sounds like you got something going on right now. A little snacking.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonTaking it back to the 90s, I have been into Mike and Ike's.
Trenton Reynoldswas not what I was expecting at all.
I know.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonMike and Ike Sours. We get them at the dollar store.
Trenton ReynoldsThat's different than just plain Mike and Ike's.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, yeah. They're kind of coated in a sour powder.
Trenton ReynoldsYou know what just happened when you said that? That little thing at the bottom of my cheek? You know, that kind of twinges with the sour? Yep. Just thinking about it activated that little sour sensor.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSour sensor, yeah. Sour sensor. Yeah. So I haven't been a candy girl, but Corey's brought home. And then he has these sweet and sour gummy snakes that are really good. and there, so he gets his candy at...
Trenton ReynoldsSweet and sour gummy snakes. Where does he get his candy?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWell, I think he either... Well, we can get some of it, we'll get it at the dollar store. We'll hit up the dollar store. Or I think he gets it at like Walgreens.
Trenton ReynoldsWalgreens. One thing that I think you need to try is the sweet tart, I think it's sweet tart, ropes.
Oh.
Trenton ReynoldsThey are like, they're a licorice outer skin, and then inside is kind of like Laffy Taffy. Then it's this nice combination of textures, and then it's the sweet and sour thing going on too. Anyway, really good. Sweet tart ropes, I think.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSweet tart ropes, okay.
Okay.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhat's happening in the studio? What's happening over there?
Trenton ReynoldsWell, not a whole lot of exciting things. Actually, one thing that I'm going to be sharing about, hopefully coming up soon, because next week is not spring break, but it's another week for... where teachers don't have to teach at our school. It's kind of like a prep week. And I'm going to be spending some time in the Fab Lab, and I'm getting into using the CNC router, which is a computer-guided router that you can cut wood with and metal and all sorts of things. And I'm going to try routing into a big 4-by-5-foot painting that I've been working on. Wow. Like digging into it, cutting lines into the surface, and you can do kind of three-dimensional, more sculptural types of stuff. So more on that hopefully next week. But I have something specific that I wanted to talk about. Okay, great. Can we get into that? Yep. It's kind of an unfinished thought, but when we were visiting my in-laws in, or my brother-in-law and his family in Prescott. I was talking to my brother-in-law, fantastic man. I really enjoy spending time with him. And they both, he and his wife are both really into holistic living, you know, and he's a dentist and his practice is more focused on preventative dental care and, you know, uh, non-invasive remedies and, you know, just, just really cool stuff. Anyway, uh, they listened to a lot of podcasts and, you know, like self, self-improvement type stuff. But, um, what I had wanted to say is, oh, we were, uh, we were sitting with the kids at the, the, their community pool. We were talking about boundaries, um, and I forgot exactly what the nature of the conversation was or what specifically we were talking about. I think we were talking about a podcast that we had both listened to. But the model, the metaphor that he used... But we've talked about boundaries a lot before. Yeah. And I guess to explain the shift, I'd like to kind of paint a picture of something you might experience in an average drawing class. You go into a drawing class, and you typically start with contour drawings, right? Contour drawings you use, like say you're drawing an apple. You draw the line around the apple. right? The shape, the contour, the outline, right? It's not a silhouette as much as it's, it's a kind of description of the outer edges of an object that you're trying to describe, right? So, you know where the apple begins and where the background ends or vice versa by that contour line, that dark line. But in reality, when you're looking at an apple, you don't see a dark line around it,
right?
Trenton ReynoldsYou see, um, the background, say it's a dark apple, like a dark red apple on a white background. You see where the apple begins and the background ends just by a shift of value, right? Where it goes from light background to dark. You don't need that dark line to tell you where the apple begins and the background ends. It's just a shift in value. Does that make sense? Yep. So then as you progress in a drawing class, you start to learn shading, modeling, you know, using light and dark to describe form and shape rather than relying on that contour line to describe form and shape. and then it starts to feel more three-dimensional and more, you know, what we actually are observing in real life.
Right.
Trenton ReynoldsSo when it comes to boundaries that we create with other people, I was having this conversation with my brother-in-law, He, he, it was, it came from him though. I wanted to be clear that this was not my idea, but it was kind of revolutionized my metaphor, my model for it. Was that rather than thinking about creating a boundary, say for your kids or for a friend that's, that's, you know, you're feeling, you know, it's taking too much or, you know, along the lines that we've talked about before with boundaries.
Yeah.
Trenton Reynoldsit's about defining yourself more clearly than it is about putting up a wall, right?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat is interesting. Yes, I love that.
Trenton ReynoldsSo do you see the analogy I'm making between that and these contour drawings, right? Totally get it.
Um, and that's very cool.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd I guess it speaks to a way of interacting with people that that's more from a position of power rather than a defensive or divisive, uh, you know, stance where you're not, you're not saying, okay, what can I do to create this boundary between me and this person? Instead, you're saying, how can I communicate to this person or to the world that, that this is where I end, you know, or this is where my limit is. And by communicating that clearly, then other people understand that. And, you know, I guess we have to have a certain level of trust that other people will respect, you know, those limits and boundaries. But it's, I think, having that in our mind, though, and having that as the metaphor rather than thinking of us trying to separate ourself more from other people. It's just a more, I don't know, more empowering, more communicative and uniting way of thinking about it, you know?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's very interesting. That's a beautiful analogy. And it's like you are the boundary. Right. Exactly. Your self being your full self is... the boundaries of you.
Trenton ReynoldsYes, exactly. And sometimes like we're feeling invaded and what we really need to do is just strengthen our narrative about that part of ourselves rather than protect it.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, I love the idea of strengthening that narrative about yourself. Can you think of an example for you?
Trenton ReynoldsNo. It's easy to kind of float into these vague descriptions and metaphors, but it's harder to find a specific example.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOr where you would like to establish, create that more for yourself?
Trenton ReynoldsWell, I think with my family, I've, uh, you know, there are certain members of my family that, uh, that are more vocal and more aggressive in, in how they relate to the family and family dynamics. And my, I've always grown up with the internal dialogue that, you know, I just need to get out of the way. I'm the fourth of six boys. Nobody needs another opinion. Nobody needs another voice. Um, yeah. and I think that has resulted in me not feeling relevant, connected, valued, heard, you know, in that, in that context. Um, so that doesn't necessarily sound like boundaries, but it is, but maybe in the opposite direction, like I need to push out the boundary so that there's space for me, you know? Yes. It's not something that's, um,
uh,
Trenton Reynoldswhere I'm feeling invaded as much as I don't feel like I've expanded enough. Yeah. So being in that case, maybe to use this metaphor, I going and actually just trying to be more vocal in telling people who I am or where I'm at or what I'm doing or, uh, you know, sharing stories or, you know, again, it's about defining or creating a narrative in that context, in that, in that culture of the family or the context of the family, um, and staking some territory that is me, you know, or creating territory that's me. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, you know, where I started going and we're thinking about that is in relation to our conversation about you and your relationship to the community of people that have found you through your books. Mm-hmm. And I don't know exactly how that relates. When you feel like you are giving more than you have to give or people are asking for more than you have to give, the instinct is to withdraw and to try to limit or cut off the flow. Right. And I think maybe to go along with what I've just been saying, the better way to approach it would be to strengthen that and define that more clearly so people understand exactly what they are asking of you. And so that they can understand more clearly who you are and where your contours are, where your limitations are.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, and that being a beautiful thing because to me that kind of comes back to for me thinking about the course. Like I don't have to do it the way someone else does it. That the more I'm clearly doing it my way, in my, the way I'm going to do it, the more decisive that is and the more effective and, and, and then it will provide the people that are wanting that for me. The truest version of myself and what I'm offering. Exactly.
Trenton ReynoldsExactly. And it becomes less... it becomes less about what their expectations and what's in their mind and what the things that they've created about you and more about what you have You know you are communicating about yourself and what you have defined and that's the risk
Sabrina Ward Harrisonanyone has to take because when you're thinking about the audience and then you're not giving the benefit of surprise. They don't even know. They may have an expectation. They may be thinking, Sabrina's course is gonna be like this, and I'm picturing like that, and I really want it to be like this. But maybe what they're gonna experience is the shape of it, just they haven't, they don't. they um how do i don't get lost in what i'm saying here like it's almost uh like we can think we know what we want until something comes along that's even further and more and truer than we could have imagined like absolutely yeah um
Trenton ReynoldsAnd the scary thing about that and the scary thing about creativity in general is that you don't know what that looks like because it's never existed before. Right. Right. And if you spend too much time dictating your actions and dictating your creativity based on what other people have done or what already exists, then you're preventing yourself from taking the risks and... Kind of searching the avenues that feel more authentic to you and, you know, ultimately will further progress these ideas and, you know, what it could be a class online or whatever it is.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOr gouging into some big wood painting that you're going to do?
Trenton ReynoldsGouging, man. Just going to... Gouge it. Gouge it.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonJust gouge it. Another great conversation with ourselves. Deep and wise and fascinating. It really truly is every time. we we love that you guys are listening and always appreciate appreciate your feedback you can leave us a review on iTunes or send us an email at RubenTheTrees@gmail.com if you want to find out more about my online course and being the know about it get well you can go to SabrinaWarrenHarrison.info and you can add your name to that there should be a box that comes up with your name there There are new pieces and prints up in my Etsy shop, which is True Living Studio. All one, one long word in Etsy. So if you search for True Living Studio, you should find me. And there's some original pieces and some prints up and I'll let you know. And I want to give a shout out to Kayla for editing today's episode. Really, really appreciate it. Thank you, Kayla. And we'll see you next time. week.