WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.040 ♪ 00:00:10.040 --> 00:00:13.040 Happy 2017. This is Sabrina. 00:00:13.040 --> 00:00:14.740 And this is Trent. 00:00:14.740 --> 00:00:20.200 And this is Room in the Trees, a podcast about living a creative life, figuring it out. What else? 00:00:20.200 --> 00:00:23.100 Art. Making stuff. 00:00:24.540 --> 00:00:25.340 Doing it. 00:00:34.080 --> 00:00:35.140 In a sense. 00:00:40.640 --> 00:01:36.700 Today we have a special Christmas episode for you. Sabrina came out for... for a trip to California during the holiday season, and we recorded an episode in person. We were at Sabrina's mother's house, which was fantastic, and we recorded an episode there. We also recorded an adventure that we had. We decided to go to our favorite places. We went to a thrift store, in Pasadena and we also went to the container store in Pasadena and we recorded all of the audio from that adventure with portable microphones. So if you're interested in hearing that, we're going to post that to Patreon for our Patreon subscribers. We would love it if you would support us by becoming a patron on patreon.com/room. 00:01:36.700 --> 00:01:42.760 A shout out to Lulu Figueroa. Thank you for supporting us. And I love your name. 00:01:43.380 --> 00:01:55.260 We are also going to include a little bit of that audio at the very beginning of this episode. Because there was a wonderful encounter at the store with a woman named Liz. 00:01:56.880 --> 00:01:57.880 Hope you enjoy. 00:02:00.300 --> 00:02:07.460 Oh, look at this look. You look fantastic. Thank you. 00:02:07.460 --> 00:02:18.300 You look abs-- I just went to church. You did? There was a birthday party for our lady that she speeches. Yeah. So I just wanted to wear dress up. 00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:20.800 Can I take your picture? You can. 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:22.800 Oh, good. Why not? 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:24.800 You look so pretty. 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:30.800 Really? You look pretty to yourself. Oh, thank you. Honestly, you look very cute. 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:34.800 Do you want me to take a picture of you? Yeah, then. 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:37.800 She wants to show her friends, maybe. 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:43.900 Yeah, I do want to show my friends. Oh, you like it then. Where did you get that, where did you get that, um, Outfit? 00:02:43.900 --> 00:02:57.900 Yeah. It's been long time. You believe if I tell you something? Tell me. I have it maybe 10 years. Did you? Yeah. Oh, it's fantastic. I gave a lot of clothing to them already. Yeah. 00:02:57.900 --> 00:03:02.900 Yeah. Did you find it here? No. No. No. 00:03:02.900 --> 00:03:04.900 No. It's special. 00:03:04.900 --> 00:03:05.400 No. 00:03:05.100 --> 00:03:06.840 - So good, yeah. 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:12.340 - It's beautiful. Sometimes you can find amazing things here, you know, that are maybe not-- 00:03:12.340 --> 00:03:18.840 - Sometimes I donate, like I did two bags of my clothing. - Yeah. - I'm not wearing anymore. 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:27.800 - Okay, I'll take your picture. What's your name? Liz. Liz. I'm Sabrina. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Sabrina. 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:52.820 Yes. She's so cute too. You look like my, honestly, she has like you, your hair color and your eyes, my cousin, my father's brother's daughter. Oh, what's her name? I will Salpi. Salpi. Which is Armenian. Yeah. Yeah, Salpi. Beautiful. Have a great day. Have a nice Merry Christmas. Thank you. Merry Christmas. 00:03:54.480 --> 00:03:55.660 It was all for that. 00:03:56.620 --> 00:04:03.900 What's that? It was all for that. That was it? That was it. If we hadn't decided to leave, we would not have talked to her. It is. Liz. 00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:04.900 Liz. 00:04:04.900 --> 00:04:06.900 Liz in red. Well, that's interesting. 00:04:06.900 --> 00:04:30.800 So you actually were just a little self-conscious, felt bad that you didn't deliver the experience Because you wanted me to feel the excitement that you felt. Yeah, and I wasn't feeling that excitement. 00:04:30.800 --> 00:05:05.140 Oh. And just in general, I think that says something about... Also, when you put expectation... This lamp is coming... I feel... Maybe you move your chair. Yeah. When you put expectation on experience, there's something about that It just is, it's again, it goes back to also making art. You can't make a moment, the right time to do a piece or to dive into work. - Right. - But the same time you can't not show up because you think it's not the right time. 00:05:05.140 --> 00:05:06.140 - Right. 00:05:06.140 --> 00:05:19.300 - So. - But, and we, the reason that we went there today wasn't the reason that maybe you had anticipated Right. We went for Liz. 00:05:19.300 --> 00:05:21.300 Exactly, exactly. 00:05:21.300 --> 00:05:30.300 And fortunately she allowed you to take a picture of her. Do you think she's okay with us sharing with-- Yes. 00:05:30.300 --> 00:05:31.300 Okay. 00:05:31.300 --> 00:05:43.960 Yes. voice we didn't we i don't know did you take a video yeah yeah well if i was recording i guess we did get her because that was you were you were recording yeah okay and i have a video i'll put 00:05:43.960 --> 00:05:57.560 her put some listen and that's a really important reminder i think for all of us to remember is to show up for the experience and drop the storyline drop the storyline 00:05:57.560 --> 00:05:58.960 meaning 00:05:58.960 --> 00:06:13.500 drop the expectation of this is happening so this is happening so that will happen right because like it's got to happen a certain way yeah because ultimately we don't have that kind of control and it's more interesting 00:06:13.500 --> 00:06:31.460 And if you're focused too much on having that experience and too locked in on that story, you miss some potentially better stories that you could have never imagined for yourself. I've had that experience several times. Only several? 00:06:32.820 --> 00:06:36.900 Many times. Constantly. So many times every day. 00:06:41.620 --> 00:06:42.120 Okay. 00:06:42.100 --> 00:07:11.880 It's a perfect run state of being. Something else happened there, I can't remember. Was there something else that happened at the thrift store? Oh, what I wanted to say is when you saw Liz coming out of the store, you like whispered under your breath to me like, "Oh, look. Look at her. Look at this one. And then I thought we were just gonna look at her and pass by. 00:07:14.180 --> 00:07:15.940 - I pulled a Lois Harrison. 00:07:15.940 --> 00:07:18.280 - And you just, you stopped her. 00:07:18.280 --> 00:07:22.020 - I did, I said, "You look fantastic!" 00:07:22.020 --> 00:07:24.800 - And she was so pleased. - She was so pleased. 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:47.700 very very happy. I really learned that from my mom to just really look someone in the eye and tell them they look fabulous and they put effort into it or they have a great jacket on or you know you just you acknowledge it and they feel so great and it makes you feel wonderful. Because she obviously cared and put a lot of heart behind that outfit. She did. She did. She was so happy. 00:07:47.700 --> 00:07:54.200 And I believed you when you said that. I'm like, Sabrina really digs this outfit. Like I did. 00:07:54.300 --> 00:08:37.300 I digged it on her. I didn't want to wear it. But I digged. I love when someone just expresses themselves. So like I just love that she woke up that morning. And I love that she sort of talked. You know, again, it's all the... She's just a great example of in other cultures that is more fluidly, like first of all you dress with more expression. She'd come from something at her church and celebrating someone there and it was just something that we made. miss here about just. 00:08:37.300 --> 00:08:47.200 - Clothing yourself is an opportunity to-- - Celebrate. - Celebrate, say something about what you're doing or-- 00:08:48.020 --> 00:09:14.000 - No, well I think it's more than the dressing part, but just that she was living her life in such a way that she seemed that she cared about what she'd just been at, she dressed up for something at, in her...she just sometimes, she just wasn't like, "I'm going to Target." Right. She was...there was something dynamic about her. 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:37.800 And she had obviously, she had contributed, well she told us she had contributed to that Yes. Is there, I mean are these your people? Do you feel connection with the community of thrift store? No. There's a big range. Is there? There is a big range. There's not like a stereotype or anything? 00:09:37.800 --> 00:09:42.800 There's plenty of stereotypes but there's tears I think of intensity. 00:09:42.800 --> 00:09:44.800 Tears? Can you? 00:09:44.800 --> 00:09:49.340 can you label what tier would you belong to? 00:09:49.340 --> 00:09:56.360 There are probably even tiers within the tier of people who buy the majority of their clothes at the thrift stores. 00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:01.360 - Definitely, because I do it for, 00:10:05.780 --> 00:10:09.200 I also buy a lot of my art supplies in my store. 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:18.300 - At thrift stores? Art supplies? Really? I didn't realize, do they have a section or are you just kind of like a miscellaneous? - Miscellaneous. 00:10:19.980 --> 00:10:26.000 Most of my art supplies. Again, going back to stepping in storage for the first. 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:33.000 - Right. Would you be able to find like a specific? - No, no, no. - It's just kind of whatever comes up. 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:48.260 - And we've talked about that, that's what leads to interesting, you're like, well, this is the color I'm working with. And it leads to less sort of trying to decide, well, should it be this for an umber or this? 00:10:50.020 --> 00:11:23.800 - Well, it seems like that would do two things or, numbers on it. It would give you just freedom from the anxiety of having to do things the right way. It just kind of frees you from having to make that choice, or the anxiety of making that choice. But it also introduces something that you can't plan for, something spontaneous into the throwing of a decision. an unforeseen or unplannable problem to solve. 00:11:23.800 --> 00:11:24.640 - Yep. 00:11:26.680 --> 00:12:06.800 And it gets you fluid, it kind of gets you exercising, like, oh, I've never worked with this, so, like, I thought I'd gotten a whole tub of white gel medium. but it was actually gesso and I put my hand into it. And you know how some gel mediums, like it's like the heavy gel medium, it's white and then it dries. So I wasn't thinking, and it was in the same kind of tub and I just scooped it out with my hand, I smeared it on and I'm like, that has too much grain in it, that's not gesso, that's gesso, that is not gel. And I was just like, whatever. - Oh man. 00:12:06.800 --> 00:12:09.740 That's a big, big difference. 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:16.880 Is that how you roll? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I can imagine that moment when you realize that this is actually just so. 00:12:18.920 --> 00:12:19.760 Yeah, but. 00:12:19.920 --> 00:12:20.820 That wasn't devastating? 00:12:21.400 --> 00:13:01.740 No, because I work so differently than you. Yeah. The only time a real mess up happened was, well, this is more than one time, a real mess up, but supply-wise, there's a couple times when I do something when I'm at the end of a project and I'm just finishing it off with putting a little, I had a painting I was doing for someone that was mostly black gesso paint and it was for Christmas, it was about 10 years ago. and I was just gonna spray, fix it, the top of it, and I wasn't, I was like shaking the can up and I went to spray and it was gold spray paint. 00:13:03.820 --> 00:13:15.300 So, it is good to look twice, spray once. - Look twice, spray once. Yeah. - You ever need real good fails like that? 00:13:15.300 --> 00:13:56.400 No, but I'm trying to think of, I have done a couple times where I'll have a painting finished and ready for a show. And then it gets, when you put it in the car, it gets like something else pokes into it or you lean it up against a wall and a little, you know. something pokes in behind it and so you've got this little bump on the surface and you know stuff like that i've had happen before and that drives me crazy but i can't think of a something on that that scale like uh spraying a finished painting with gold spray paint that's that would be 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:56.260 phrase and I can't throw a wrench in the word or you know whatever create problems for myself and I think I've mentioned before like when I feel myself getting too controlled and tight and polished and you know default behavior just kind of it gets on autopilot I'm need to stop and sand it down or rub the dirty palette knife over it or something like that. So I'm interested in ways artists find to kind of shake themselves out of just the you know, that kind of autopilot. 00:14:56.260 --> 00:15:05.900 - How does it feel when you do that? When you shake yourself out of it and you, does it almost feel, 'cause it's almost so uncomfortable, but yet, does it? 00:15:05.900 --> 00:16:20.160 - Well, I think at first, when I started, when I found those ways, when I realized the need for it, and I can't remember where I got the idea, I'm sure somebody somebody oh, yeah, I think I mentioned this before Chuck close that that movie Mentioned this before I haven't seen it. It's a I think there's a couple of Chuck close Documentaries, but this one is called like an unfinished portrait or something like that But he talks about in his painting starting with a color You know, he does those grids and yeah, and he'll start with the color that he knows is the wrong color or a color that he's never started with in that particular situation. And he'll intentionally choose a color he knows is wrong or different than he usually does just so he has that to push against and has to solve that problem. So I think that got me thinking about, well, maybe there are ways, there are things that I can introduce into my process or just kind of look for opportunities to introduce those things and to keep myself from going into just the drone, the autopilot. So at first, when I started doing that, like sandpapering or rubbing a dirty palette knife across the painting, it was very alarming. 00:16:23.420 --> 00:17:21.920 But I guess the more I do it and the more I realize that that adds an important element of spontaneity and life to the images, it doesn't hurt as bad to do it, even when I'm having to mess up something that I care about. And that's the other thing that, and this is something I tell my students all the time, is the, somebody along the way told me that when you start to love something a lot about a painting, that you need to get rid of it. You just, you got to do it because if you start getting too attached to that one thing, the rest of the painting will suffer because of it and you won't be able to even see it until it's too late. Right. So I mean I've learned that I've seen that over and over again so when I feel myself starting to protect something or start to really like something in a painting I get the sandpaper and just scrub it and because if I don't then everything else starts to revolve around that and and it's a worse painting for it. 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:47.180 - What about the part that happens right after you kind of have that juncture moment and you kind of liberate the moment, you liberate the piece and it's completely, how much further then do you sort of, not trace your steps back but then make it, more finished? You know, the sense of like, 00:17:48.140 --> 00:17:48.640 do you, 00:17:49.760 --> 00:17:52.500 how often do you wrestle with when, 00:17:53.180 --> 00:17:53.720 when, 00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:56.780 how tight to get something? 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:57.960 I think, um, I think my instinct about that is bad. I tend to overwork things. I'll get a painting to a point and then sit it aside and I'll think that, "Oh, it's done." And then come back to it a couple days later and realize, "I went too far again." locked it down too much. So I guess to realize, recognize that I do that and overcompensate a little bit, understanding that that's my tendency, I'll try to stop before I think it's time to stop, like when I'm still a little bit uncomfortable with it. 'Cause I know I've got this, just kind of my sense of when something's done is a little bit off. So, and Laura also helps me with that. She'll come in and she'll say, "Oh, you're starting to overwork." So it's nice to have, it's good to have people in your life that can help you. 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:06.720 - Do you see that with students that where you kind of think, Oh, they could have stopped. Like, where does it show? Where do you see that reflect? See, it's a reminder for you. 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:24.180 Well, see, that is a tough thing because, like, I'll be in a drawing class walking around the room, and you'll see somebody that's, you know, they've done a quick drawing in five minutes, and you're like... like wow that is dynamite. - Right. - But if you go up and say you need to stop, you're done, 00:19:26.240 --> 00:20:30.140 that it just is a weird psychological thing for them because maybe they don't feel like they're done or they wanted to try something else with the drawing or and then all of a sudden their teacher is telling them to stop. So even if they continue, they're gonna feel that resistance like I should have stopped. - Right. - Or maybe I don't understand what it means finished a drawing. So I don't know, I think you have to play with that on an individual basis because some people can take that better than others. I think for me to do something like that, for me to insert myself into somebody else's process in that way, I think I would have to have been working with them and watching them for multiple semesters. before I would do that. Because then I can say from experience, like, you tend to do these things. And I've seen you work in the past. And so let me make this suggestion based on these patterns that I've seen. Right. Because if I go to somebody that I've never seen before, like, oh, that's great, you've got to stop. Right. I don't think 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:54.200 but just even for yourself seeing it where you notice when you sometimes when you see others working something it's almost just more of a reminder for yourself too when you think yeah such a reminder like you know and it's interesting to see about how to teach that you know how to show enough examples of you know the piece letting the piece have have life to its own 00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:56.200 Yeah. And... 00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:15.460 That's one of those things that I think is so difficult to get at personally. Yeah. Yeah. That trying to figure out how to communicate that and teach that is just really, really tricky. And I don't know, there's a lot of things in teaching art that are like that where it's really hard to put it into words. It's hard to explain. 00:21:15.460 --> 00:21:20.360 - 'Cause it's a feeling. That's what makes art magical in a way. 00:21:20.360 --> 00:21:31.980 - Right, there's an instinct to it, right? And it's hard to kind of communicate that. - 'Cause it's either alive or it's not. - Right, and some people can sense that. And some people don't. 00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:40.600 - And we can sense it in other pieces, but it's very hard to be subjective with that. Like it's our knowing, but it's our knowing below our knowing. 00:21:43.880 --> 00:22:27.320 - Yeah, hard to see it in ourselves sometimes. But I see it, and there is a kind of similar characteristic or similar feeling, and you teach long enough and you see enough people do drawings and paintings, you start to see those patterns just from everybody, that people tendencies, different personality types even. will tend to do things in a certain way. So I definitely see it often where I can tell that they're pushing it too hard or going over something or getting fixated on a certain part of the image to the detriment or the rest of the image. 00:22:28.540 --> 00:22:34.880 What are some of your favorite painters that you say are really good in a bold way nailing it about when to stop? 00:22:36.160 --> 00:23:46.500 I think Sargent is the one that always comes to mind because he was just a master at doing exactly what he was doing exactly the right amount. Like just what he needed to be done. Like you look at a Sargent and there are, there will be parts of the painting that are really polished and highly rendered, you know, really detailed. And then right next to it will be just like a really loose, almost abstract brush stroke. But in the context of the rest of the image, that's all the information that was needed for the viewer to to fill in the gaps. And those differing levels of finish or resolution just give more entrance, make it more accessible. And you'll look in the background and if you were just to isolate that one part in the background it would look like mush, like nothing. But in the context larger painting. It was just the right amount, just enough to suggest without having to be too literal. And that suggestion, rather than really being polished about it, just lets it breathe. 00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:53.840 Yeah. I wonder, have you read much about his creative process and how he how he worked? 00:23:53.840 --> 00:25:24.500 - I haven't. I have a book about him, and I think most of the information that I have in my head is stuff that's been told to me by other artists. But I remember hearing stories of him, you know, he'd load up a paint, like put the paint on the brush, like three or four colors, like actually physically put the paint on the brush and then sit for like an hour and just for one stroke, you know, just to get it exactly right. - Oh, wow. - And you can actually, you can see that, you know, where there will be a brush stroke with, you know, two or three different colors that blend together and you can see that it was actually done in a single stroke. And again, it's just like a perfect brush stroke that does, wraps everything together and is just the amount of information you need without going too far. So, I might be getting that wrong because I don't think I read that I think I was told that. But yeah, is probably the best example of that. I don't know because I think we there's this again it's like that autopilot that you get into where you if you're not careful you'll do you'll complete everything equally or you'll treat everything the same and that creates I think a barrier you know just or stagnation, no movement. 00:25:24.500 --> 00:25:37.500 - It still goes back to that portrait that you had up in the room in the trees that you had done in Chicago. That's from that series of almost life-size. Just that looseness of that. 00:25:39.500 --> 00:26:51.360 - That series was a situation where the way I was working, I was working on unprimed fabrics that I found at the fabric store. And that was it was kind of hard to work with because the fabric would absorb the paint. So it would get kind of this splotchy thing. Anyway, the actual materials I was using introduced some of that friction or some of that ways to challenge my default behaviors. So I don't know, I think there's something to that. So your tendency to find art materials at the thrift store and kind of through that process limit yourself or create new situations or new set of circumstances that you have to deal with, I think. Thank you. there's something to be learned there. Whereas when you go to an art store and you get the beginner set of oil paints and you get the book that has steps one, two, and three. And the canvas that's pre-primed. You lose all of those opportunities inherent in the materials to have a chance to be challenged in different ways. 00:26:54.820 --> 00:27:08.860 Anyway, so that's, I think you wanting to go to a thrift store and me wanting to go to the container store is probably, yeah. It says everything about what we're talking about, right? - Yeah. 00:27:08.860 --> 00:27:10.900 - I've, I've been, 00:27:10.900 --> 00:27:43.920 Definitely part of my soul is to want to contain and organize and isolate and polish and systematize and all these categorize. We've talked about this before. but I think that's one thing that I find so compelling about your work and the way in your process is like I Recognize the value of that, but it is the way yeah Things that you I think come naturally to you are just so outside of my 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:59.340 Similar the other way around too. It's like gosh if I like how do I get a little bit of that? in my blood of just that containment part of just, or thinking in systems and organization that way. 00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:28.600 - So we walked into the container store today, and actually that isn't my favorite container store because it's on two levels. I had forgotten that it was a two store. story one. I think I prefer it when it's on one level. Yeah. Why? Because when you walk in, you can see the layout of the store. And when you look down the center, you can see all the different aisles, like just to get a peek in the different aisles. Yeah. So there's more of like a sense of... 00:28:28.600 --> 00:28:32.600 There's more containment in the containment. 00:28:32.600 --> 00:29:21.320 That is true. That is true. You kind of get the big view. When there's two levels, you don't get the big view. It's like the clear box. Your consciousness is divided. That's no good. So yeah, it's like the clear box. Yeah. Ah, gosh, this runs deep. So the the container store that's in the century city whatever close where I'm at is one store one floor and I prefer that. But I went in there and I did not have any fear about providing you with the container store experience. - Really, it was a confidence. - It's gonna be the container store. I mean, that's what you get with the franchise. 00:29:21.320 --> 00:29:23.800 - Yeah, it's what you get with the franchise, right. 00:29:23.800 --> 00:29:26.800 - It's gonna be what it always is. 00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:34.000 Which lacks a certain amount of romance and a certain amount of magic. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:38.480 Yeah, there's no magic. 00:29:39.740 --> 00:29:44.140 I was wanting to see the magic. I wanted to see the magic happen. 00:29:44.380 --> 00:29:46.180 The magic is inside you. 00:29:51.520 --> 00:29:52.300 Magic is in you. 00:29:52.300 --> 00:30:06.360 I guess there was a little bit of magic. No, there's no magic. But when you walk into the store and there's those little buckets with all the little gadgets and gizmos, it was kind of like walking into Brookstone. 00:30:06.360 --> 00:30:13.700 Because you really, now that I'm seeing you in person, in front of Trent right now, there's a plethora of gadgets. 00:30:14.300 --> 00:30:27.720 Yes. In this moment, we're looking at a table full of... even I think I got these battery little boxes that have four batteries each 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:44.300 because you can't just leave the battery kind of laid out in a nice kind of nice little bouquet of of gadgetry - So many things. - What was he gonna say about that? 00:30:44.300 --> 00:31:12.500 - So the magic, just seeing those little, they get me every time, those little gadgets. And I'm sure they, Blick does the same thing with their end displays, where they've always got some-- - You're the sucker that gets all the-- - Totally the sucker. I am the guy that they're putting those things out for. Like the new little brand of paint or, you know, whatever, you know, new slightly different formulation of the same old thing. I'm like, "Ooh." 00:31:12.500 --> 00:31:15.500 Let's talk about what we're suckers for. That's a good... 00:31:15.500 --> 00:32:36.800 All right. Well, that's me. Like, let me give you an example. I love the Pentel. This is a, I didn't realize, a Pentel brush pen. But I also love, Pentel has an eraser. that you, it's the little clicky kind. It's a big long eraser and it's in a tube and then you push it with your thumb. - Yeah. - You're right. I love those things. There's another brand called Tough Stuff that you can find at Blick and they make three different kinds of, basically the same thing. like a pencil size thing, and they've got one that's a really small tube of eraser that you can click and it pushes more eraser out. And then there's one that's kind of rectangular at the tip. - Oh, just to get those sharp right angles. - And then you can get it right, more lines instead of a tube. And then there's another one that's a slightly bigger tube. I still like the big, you know, Staples variety Pentel eraser the best. Yeah. But I have all four. And do you know where they are? I'm a sucker. That kind of stuff. Do you keep them -- And if they came out with like a triangle version of that, oh. Totally. I've even thought of it. You know, I thought they should do a triangular one because that -- I'd be able to get straight lines and points more often. 00:32:36.800 --> 00:32:40.800 True. How do you keep the triangle sharp? 00:32:40.800 --> 00:32:48.800 Just probably by how you use it. Or maybe you can have an exacto knife and just trim it off when you needed those edges. 00:32:48.800 --> 00:32:55.200 Why not cut up an eraser and just adjust it? the shapes, your desired shape. 00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:01.080 - Well then you don't have the convenience of having it in that pencil form. - In the container? - Yeah, in the container. 00:33:01.080 --> 00:33:05.320 - Wow. Wow. Wow. - It's not contained. 00:33:05.320 --> 00:33:06.980 It's not convenient. 00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:15.480 - Wow. Do you lose things very often? Do you know where most things are? 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:35.940 - It's a pretty significant problem to contain like a whole studio's worth and life times worth of accumulated art junk. But I've been doing it for enough years that I generally have a pretty good idea where things are kept. I've got groupings that make sense, you know, like all the drawing materials over here. 00:33:35.940 --> 00:35:08.600 - So what are your groupings? If you were to tell someone, like for example, Jesse came to visit from my birthday a couple weeks ago. And she really has an ability, probably similar to you, or an appreciation for space, possibilities of space. Like she'll see something that's a small thing and say, I see potential in this space. And so she has been talking for a year about how much she wanted to come up to Madison from Chicago and just go at it with my kitchen and just, just set things straight in there. And she really, really did in a matter of hours. Surprisingly, when she pulled it all out and she saw everything, she found this, and then she looked at all the cupboards, all the shelving I had, what could be, used under the thing. And she really saw a system and she grouped things together. And before you know it, I really have a full functioning, great looking kitchen with, I don't-- - Yeah. - And so as far as, but I wouldn't, my brain doesn't work with knowing how to kind of tackle something like that. similarly but she also understood the need for me to be able to see things I'm not going to use it if it's away in a drawer and I think that is in an art studio is a challenge because you need to be able to kind of have that arms reach and then I again going back to I need the spontaneity like well that random this pencil's lying there I'm using that pencil right I'm not going to go 00:35:08.600 --> 00:36:29.240 look for right because that creates more friction between you getting actually doing stuff. Yeah. And I think that's that's part of the delight of finding a solution and why it's so like magical for me and exciting. It's like for example that that little thing full of little drawers that you pull out. Right. For years I had all my screws and and bolts and washers and stuff like that in all those little pull-out drawers. But every time I needed a screw, I had to go and open up every single drawer in that thing to try to find the right thing 'cause I couldn't see inside the drawer. So when I found those little stackable clear things, it was like, "Ah, this is so much easier." So like, I don't know, I don't know. it took that bit of friction out of my life and I can feel this one more thing that my brain doesn't have to hold onto and be anxious about, right? - Right. - I don't know, that's so satisfying. And then every time I see those, you know, stack of screws or every time I go get a screw there's that reinforcement of that joy like so perfect yeah I love showing people like I would get into not 00:36:29.240 --> 00:36:32.900 remembering to friggin screw them back together that's what I would do and I'd 00:36:32.900 --> 00:37:20.480 be an idiot and like by the third day it happens. Once you find the system you gotta but but I think there are obviously you know some people are more there are different levels of rigidness about that I think like my friend Tom yeah much more uptight about having things you know in their place and having things properly categorized and so I am certainly not the most rigorous in my categories in organizing things. Anyway, I feel like we've gone in depth, deep dive on this. Yes, you do. So did you say what you're a sucker for? - What do you have to buy? 00:37:22.240 --> 00:37:33.320 - I gotta say, I am a sucker for beauty products. - Beauty products? - Yeah, I like me some nice, I like things that smell, like, I like, I do like, 00:37:36.900 --> 00:38:31.900 yeah, I don't, I don't, I, Smelly beauty? Like fragrance? No, not like a lot, but I know there's, for example, there is this coconut, there you go, from years ago, this thing, and I, like, I don't know how to put a good word example I just that's the part of me that's very feminine is I'm like a tomboy in lots of areas in my life I feel like but when it comes to just that side of things I just like I like them very specific very nice so you will you'll go quality on that I will go quality and I will research and I will treasure and I will have it for years right 00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:00.940 to like read one of those reviews? 00:39:00.940 --> 00:39:07.040 - Yeah, I could take some screenshots. I've written a few. - Have you really? - Yeah, I have. 00:39:07.040 --> 00:39:18.180 - Oh, we so need to read one of your reviews. So Amazon reviews. Are there any other websites that you, participated in the review? 00:39:18.180 --> 00:40:05.500 No, because I think some of those more beauty websites are for people that buy-- I don't buy a lot of-- some people buy a lot of products and expensive things. I like to find the secret things and stick with them and find out what really works for me. My goal is to find out what really works, not like what's trendy, where some of those things about like really what's trendy. But I like to, like getting ready for this special birthday party for my dad. I feel like he did a, using the phrase deep dive, there was a deep dive investigative process of getting ready for this special event and like, the whole thing of what I was going to wear and the different nights, like I've got... 00:40:05.500 --> 00:40:08.740 Different things, like different products for different days? 00:40:09.040 --> 00:40:40.500 Not so much products, but clothing and then the product, the overarching. So that's when I got into thinking I was going to be organized with things in baggies and specific. And it just, I got here and it just went to hell in a handbasket because it's just baggies and... Nothing. So my mom, so our way to do the containment was, I said, "Do you have a big sort of tray?" And I just dumped it all in the tray and I'm going to transport the tray full of stuff up to Santa Barbara for the weekend. 00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:56.100 When you didn't do the baggy thing, would you just stick a tray in the bag to begin with? Or some kind of... How would you normally do that if you didn't do, like before you did the bag? 00:40:56.100 --> 00:40:59.260 - Just like a bag, like this. 00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:00.100 - Okay. 00:41:04.120 --> 00:41:05.120 - Let's see. 00:41:06.340 --> 00:41:07.380 - That's too funny. 00:41:07.380 --> 00:41:10.000 - Yep, so this is where, yep. 00:41:12.140 --> 00:41:31.120 I get a lot of pass me downs, Gretchen. sends me a lot of her, she's a real product. We've really bonded over the product front. So she sends me her sort of, lipsticks and stuff. 00:41:31.120 --> 00:41:38.200 Is there one particular kind of product that you tend to focus on? on like like lipsticks? 00:41:38.200 --> 00:42:01.400 It's always to find the right one. People listening, if most people are, most women are familiar with the brand Mac. And my mom just gifted me this today. Went back to the old standby favorite, the classic nude lip is Mac Spice. This is the best color. Or may know of this. It's just a nice... 00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:07.740 - Now when you say the best color, would you recommend this obviously? - Yes, for most women it really is. 00:42:07.740 --> 00:42:10.080 It's considered the best color. 00:42:10.080 --> 00:42:11.440 - Spice. 00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:18.060 - Mac. - In Mac, the brand is Mac. - Lip pencil. - Yeah. People, write in, leave comments. 00:42:18.060 --> 00:42:19.100 Thank you. 00:42:19.100 --> 00:42:20.880 Lots of good comments on... 00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:50.800 Well, I'm just saying for the podcast. People have good thoughts. If you're listening and you have used Spice, I remember this from high school. This was something I learned in law, not in law class, but from Kristen Merrill, who was in my law class. in high school. - She turned you on the spice? - Yep, I still remember. Mom, remember that? Remember when we were introduced to spice lips, the Mac back-- 00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:52.800 - I do remember that. 00:42:52.800 --> 00:43:09.740 - Yeah, and that was just, it was a big, we both-- - From whom did we-- - It was a girl named Kristen Merrill, I remember. - That's a familiar name. - But it was just such an exciting thing when we discovered this was such a great color. - Long, long ago. - I really share a product appreciation with my mom. 00:43:09.740 --> 00:43:12.980 - I have a narrow range for my products. 00:43:12.980 --> 00:43:13.820 - Yep. 00:43:14.720 --> 00:43:20.920 - Do you have a particular category of products that you get into? 00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:24.240 - Just all the ones for a female face, basically. 00:43:24.240 --> 00:43:34.300 - So, I don't even know what those are. - He doesn't have sisters or anything. - I know lipstick, like eyeliner, mascara. What else, base? 00:43:34.300 --> 00:43:35.800 - Yeah, foundation. 00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:37.080 - Foundation. 00:43:37.080 --> 00:43:44.660 - I don't have very many though. - Nice lotion. - I don't have, yeah, great, I like creams and moisturizers, 00:43:44.660 --> 00:43:48.280 but I don't have a lot of it. I want to just keep it. 00:43:48.280 --> 00:43:58.200 - Yeah, but it's something, my first memories of my mother were being with her, you know, it's a very ritualistic, calm thing to do, is put, 00:44:16.900 --> 00:44:20.660 taking care of your skin, just slather on some Nivea. 00:44:20.660 --> 00:44:26.500 - Slather? Does it come in a big jar? 00:44:26.500 --> 00:44:32.820 - I'm gonna go get it right now. It's an old standby from like way back when, when I was little, but it just. 00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:37.000 - Refreshes, invigorates. 00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:39.200 - It moisturizes. 00:44:39.200 --> 00:44:45.200 Specifically your neck? 00:44:45.200 --> 00:44:47.200 If I get it, will you put it on your whole face? 00:44:47.200 --> 00:44:49.200 I'll do it. I'll do it right now. 00:44:49.200 --> 00:44:56.200 Okay, good. I want to see this happen. 00:44:56.200 --> 00:45:00.280 Oh, the neck in particular, I'm kind of intrigued. 00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:07.280 Divya. 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:45.320 so is it is your neck more susceptible to drying out oh that's that's serious stuff that looks very do i put it on my whole face yeah wow it feels just just i'm just gonna go yeah it's gonna do it how do I do this? Just put it on all my hands. Yeah, it feels good on your hands too. But how do you usually do it? 00:45:46.040 --> 00:45:48.620 Yeah, I would just put it on your hands and then just... 00:45:48.620 --> 00:46:00.120 Like I'm washing my face. Right? Yeah. Is that enough? Or is that slathering? Or is that... I'm sorry. Just see how it goes. 00:46:00.120 --> 00:46:01.400 I'm just going to do this. 00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:05.900 See this has the texture of diaper cream. 00:46:05.900 --> 00:46:08.900 But it's not oily like that. 00:46:08.900 --> 00:46:18.900 No. Oh, girl. Okay. No. Especially on the neck meat, right? The neck meat. I have to take a picture for the podcast. Okay. All right. Oh, that is so slippery. 00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:19.900 I'm going to take a picture. 00:46:19.900 --> 00:46:22.900 Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. 00:46:22.900 --> 00:46:28.900 Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. 00:46:28.900 --> 00:46:29.900 Oh, my God. 00:46:29.900 --> 00:46:41.660 I got the beard. Yeah, and don't pull your face down. You're 00:46:41.660 --> 00:46:53.580 going to lift up. And you want to do this with your neck. That's going against the grain. - I'm getting my beard. 00:46:57.120 --> 00:47:03.540 Is that a rule, like you never wanna pull your skin down 'cause that's just adding to gravity? 00:47:03.540 --> 00:47:04.920 - Might as well. 00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:10.960 And there's a little right here. 00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:12.800 - Yeah, I don't have 00:47:57.600 --> 00:48:00.640 I'm going to put some on my hands right now. 00:48:00.640 --> 00:48:02.760 So do you do that every night? 00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:07.320 Well, I don't-- oh, I brought the body butter to show you that question. 00:48:12.700 --> 00:48:22.800 It's kind of expensive. So when I saw my mom had it, I just slathered it all on the other night. It's not that expensive. It's completely reasonable, actually. 00:48:42.900 --> 00:48:45.780 - I love the smell of it. Refreshing. 00:48:45.780 --> 00:48:47.720 - Is that part of the ritual? 00:48:47.720 --> 00:48:51.860 - It's just, it smells so it's connected to memory. 00:48:55.740 --> 00:49:02.760 - Well, I feel like I need to just give this a minute to. - Soak in. 00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:08.180 - But doesn't it, yeah, it will, this is what I was talking about the whole time. 00:49:08.180 --> 00:49:09.820 That I'd gotten, 00:49:09.820 --> 00:49:14.380 I'm just saying what I'm referring to, that I put on my feet, that I got at the thrift store. 00:49:15.700 --> 00:49:28.760 - Candy ginger, body butter. yeah I'm not entirely comfortable with no don't write body better like even 00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:40.000 that that phrase yeah well there's a bit of history do you have anybody no Nivea cream. 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:40.840 - Yeah. 00:49:42.460 --> 00:50:00.500 - The original moisturizing cream helps your skin stay soft and supple, ideal for daily use for all intensive moisturizing needs. To use, apply to skin as needed. 00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:03.800 That's it. - Simple. 00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:34.640 - This conversation in person. - Yeah. - Changes it to actually see facial expressions and stuff. - I know. 00:50:38.700 --> 00:50:44.560 And then what else do we have happening? What's coming up? Oh, T-shirts. - T-shirts. - Yes. 00:50:45.600 --> 00:51:07.100 - Um, Do you want to report on that front? So our very, very wonderful Julia Sperry. Yes. Saying that right. Sperry. I'm not sure how to pronounce her last name. Has been working very hard on getting organizing. 00:51:34.000 --> 00:52:26.100 And I have, I've mentioned this I think on the podcast before, but I've been working on an online class. Yeah. It's a fundamentals of visual design. It's a class that I've taught at SMC for several years. And it is finally coming together and it should be online and ready for people to sign up in January. That's so exciting. So I'm very excited to see how that goes. I want to sign up for it. I will, I'd like to do kind of a test run. So maybe just get five, 10 people and run through it and see what's working, what's not working, stuff like that. So I'll get, I'll get the word out on the podcast and if any of you are interested in participating in the test run. 00:52:26.100 --> 00:52:30.240 Let me know. That's cool. 00:52:30.240 --> 00:52:33.660 Yep. Awesome. That was great. 00:52:37.640 --> 00:52:48.160 Thank you for joining us this week. We are excited about 2017. and looking forward to being along the journey of it with you guys. 00:52:48.160 --> 00:53:21.840 - Make sure you're regularly checking out the website, roominthetrees.com, 'cause we will continue to post videos and all sorts of extra stuff, pictures and things that we think might interest you. We would love it if you would go to iTunes and leave us a review. That helps us reach more people. And we've been hearing that some of you might be having a hard time finding that. It is easier to do probably on a laptop. So try giving that a try using iTunes on a laptop. And we appreciate you doing that. 00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:26.660 and take care of yourselves 00:53:26.660 --> 00:53:36.400 have a good 2017 yep 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:41.480 from the trees ♪ ♪