Trenton Reynoldsas a creative person. The following was recorded on December 1st, 2016. This is episode number 28, A Conversation with Keith Pa. Room in the Trees is hosted by Sabrina Harrison and me, Trent Reynolds. Show notes, including pictures, links, video, and more for every episode can be found at roominthetrees.com. If you like this podcast, please consider showing your support. You can become a subscribing patron at patreon.com forward slash room. If you like this episode in particular, you can let us know by leaving us a tip by clicking on the tip jar button in the show notes. and please rate us or write a review on iTunes. It will take you a minute and really helps us reach a wider audience. You can find our iTunes page by using the link roominthetrees.com forward slash iTunes. Today podcast listeners, I want to take a moment to set your expectations a little for this episode. All of the episodes of Room in the Trees we have published to date have been edited. We often record for more than an hour and end up with a 30 to 45 minute episode. So far, I have edited all but a few episodes, which were edited by intern and friend of the show, Paul Clark. We want you to enjoy listening to the podcast, and truth is, life in real time is often hard to listen to. So there are always little background noises, mouth noises, nose breathing on my part. crackles, awkward silences, etc. etc. that I take out to provide you with something more polished and concise. When I sat down to listen to the conversation we recorded for this episode, I ended up feeling like it is important for this recording to come to you complete. So what you're about to hear is the complete unedited audio of our conversation with Keith Pa. There are some crackles, background noises, microphone feedback, silences. I did decrease the volume of Sabrina's mic, which tends to record a little too loud. But other than that, you are getting a chunk of life unedited. I hope you will listen and find, as I did, that this needed to remain complete. And now, Room in the Trees episode 28, a conversation with Keith Paul. Yes, thanks for reminding me.
You're welcome.
Keith PaughI was just listening to the first episode with your dad, where apparently you lost some recordings. That must have been miserable.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd it was such a good conversation. That one was especially painful for me. I don't think, Sabrina, you or your dad really thought too much about it, but I agonized over that. It was so painful.
I bet.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's that whole thing, let me just put my earphones in, it's that whole thing when something naturally, the whole, well really it's the art of conversation when it's not something scripted and planned, it's something that just happens, it's its own entity.
Keith PaughIt's hard to recreate the organic nature of that.
Trenton ReynoldsWell then you try to re-record it and you're trying to bring back some of the things that you talked about that you found so meaningful in the first conversation, but it's, it's it's forced and you know, you're trying to prompt each other with the answers. It's just, it just doesn't feel quite right. No. Yeah. But I think we pulled it off for the second conversation. I felt, I felt really good about, uh, with your dad. I felt good about the conversations we had with him. What we didn't get in the second conversation was the, much of the story of him, uh, uh, Canoeing down the Mississippi. That sounded incredible. Yeah. Yeah. He's got some pretty amazing stories. Really is fantastic. Are you ready? Yes. You're good to go. You're just coming from CrossFit. So you're all... Nice. Yeah. all shaken out ready to go I should have limbered up
Sabrina Ward Harrisonshe did some stretches before this I'm telling you it's just her thing throwing some tractor tires bear crawl on the ground when my mom told me before I started CrossFit she was telling me She's just turning 70 this week. And she said she was doing something where she was bear crawling on the ground. And I said, sign me up for whatever. If you're bear crawling, then I need to get my act together.
Trenton ReynoldsYour mom was bear crawling?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, she goes to this kind of, it's like a handmade gym, like in this guy's garage in Altadena.
Right?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonRight? So far so good.
No red flags.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhy can I? Yeah, exactly.
Trenton ReynoldsWhy could not picture your mom doing that? She found him on Craigslist. Right, right. Come back to me. I know. I did. I did. I did.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did.
Keith PaughI was doing it's called YRG Yoga for Real Guys
Trenton Reynoldstalk about it
Keith Paughhosted by Diamond Dallas Page of WWF fame
Wow.
Keith PaughApparently he attributed his ability to professional, Russell professionally to yoga. And that's what he did afterwards. But anyway. How did you find that? There's this guy I worked with who was telling me about it and was all excited about it. And he's like, I love it. And I said, okay, I'll try it out. Anyway, he just renames a lot of yoga poses to make them a little tougher. You know? of like things are like touchdown and cobra actually cobra's not the same one but he says he says cobra but anyway uh every time my wife would come in while i was doing this workout she'd be like i've never felt so yelled at doing yoga yeah i don't know it's motivational does it feel better did it feel good doing it Oh yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I'm up for any fitness regimen, but that particular one was fun.
Trenton ReynoldsSo was it something you found on, you download episodes on YouTube as like a podcast?
Keith PaughYeah, no, you download them, and he has like set workouts, just like P90X or anything else. That's fantastic. Yeah, I'll send it to you. It's pretty funny.
Yeah. Yeah.
Keith PaughYeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonDiamond Dallas page. I want 1090 to do a personal video of you attempting to do that. Oh, I don't think so.
Keith PaughI don't think any of us want to see that happen. Well, we could do a before and after.
Trenton ReynoldsOr maybe just sound. You could just have the audio of me huffing and puffing with all the verbal abuse.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWe were going to start with a few prompts.
Trenton ReynoldsYes. So, Keith, let me, I don't know if you're familiar with this or this idea, or I don't know if we talked about this in the episodes that you've listened to, but in a lot of Sabrina's workshops, she begins a workshop with prompts. And the idea is to have a question that is really specific instead of being general where you can answer the question really vaguely. vaguely and, you know, using cliches, asking instead a question that gets you into something like intensely personal. Meaningful. Not personal necessarily, but that's you. Substitutes. Yeah. That's you. That's you. My brain. Okay. I'll warm up. That's the other thing about being in this garage studio. like it's a little bit more insular. So the prompt that I was thinking of using...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonCan I say something a little bit more about how I use the prompts?
Trenton ReynoldsYes. Yes, please do.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhen I teach... So people primarily come for visual art to the workshops. And I really feel that to create substance with whatever you're creating, that you have to get, why are you making what you're making? What are the colors you're choosing, texture you're using, what you're pulling from, what you're referencing. has to have substance to it, has to mean something to you, and therefore will be able to create meaningful work. So I always combine a lot of, and I think it gets people kind of back home to themselves with doing a series of very kind of unexpected juxtaposed prompts with free writing, where maybe you'll write straight for just only 45 seconds, another time maybe two minutes. And I throw out, and oftentimes I just sort of think of them on the cuff, but I throw out specific details, questions about specific details of metaphors. memory. And you're not to, it's not to like over, it's not supposed to be like a beautiful memory. It's just, just being very specific. They could see that translating into film and screenplays the same, in the same regard of just getting, getting to the specific details of a character. So one of them, Tretton reminded me of this one that I've used before, was we can all kind of share, we could share one or we could, we're going to talk about kitchen floors. So what are, what's one kitchen floor? What's a kitchen floor you remember? What's three to four kitchen floors you remember? It doesn't have to be your own. It could be at a friend's house when you were little. It'd be, so.
Keith PaughOh, the immediate one is my home linoleum kitchen floor in the kitchen. Home growing up or home growing up? Home growing up. Yeah. It's like a non-color. It's like a brown mauve with sort of a almost like a Spanish black window pane line through it. I can remember the tackiness of it. - Yeah. - And-- - The tackiness on your feet? - The tackiness on your feet, yeah. You know, it's probably unintentional tackiness. - Yeah. - You know, it'd been there long enough that you started to stick to it a little bit. - Where was the house?
Trenton ReynoldsWhere were you living?
Keith PaughI grew up in Palo Alto, California, up in the Bay Area of California. And it was the house that my parents still live in, even though it's been completely remodeled, but same location and... No more linoleum. No more linoleum. When your memory of it, is it a memory when you were like really little?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOr like running around in the kitchen?
Keith PaughA real specific memory if I think back If I think back too far I start getting out of memory and into Like photos in super 8 footage that I've seen but um, I can remember there was an island with the stove in the middle of the kitchen and we would, when we were small enough to not see over it, run around it. Maybe that tackiness gave us a little more traction. Otherwise with that, yeah, we could really lean into it.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat's great.
Keith PaughThe microwave, almost an aside, but the microwave was at like lower than waist level. And it was back at the time when we weren't really sure how close you should be to it when it was running. And back, you know, looking back, maybe there was some wisdom in that at the time.
Even the technology then?
Keith PaughI do remember that. Yeah. you couldn't run around it if it was open no don't want to mix microwaving
Sabrina Ward Harrisonand she's had a real dangerous microwave fail before
Trenton ReynoldsI've started fires in the microwave light bulbs or no no light bulbs if
Keith Paughever tried a light bulb? Yeah, they'll light up. They'll light up? Yeah, they'll flicker. Wow. How cool is that? Yeah, and then explode. Prior to explosion, they do light up. Did you try that as a kid? I never tried it. I have seen it tried in microwaves that weren't going to be used for other purposes other than that demonstration but and then metal any metal you know if you leave the
Trenton Reynoldsforget to leave the spoon in that'll spark I've left a spoon in and I've left I think yeah I had this really stupid fail with like one of those
Sabrina Ward Harrisonkettles that you put down like you plug it in it's like an electric kettle and then you you know and I wasn't thinking I set it back down on the gas stove oh it was just it sparked it was at my parents house and they just the plastic I think it was actually around like the same week I was doing room in the trees and I just wasn't focusing and I put it down and then it just the plastic melted. It smelled like burning metal.
It was bad.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOkay, another kitchen.
Okay.
Keith PaughThe next one I thought of was our current kitchen, simply because it was... the first one we redid, at least with my involvement, and we didn't do it ourselves, but we went through the process of doing it. And it was, again, linoleum to begin with when we bought the house, and we put in one inch white and black hexagon tile. And the thing that I most remember about it was, again, with the linoleum, We were worried about the tile being, sitting too high from the wood floors in the living room leading up to it. When we made that change. But it turned out that there were five layers of linoleum. Wow. You could almost go back by decade.
Trenton ReynoldsIt's too funny that it just kept on laying on the floor. Right, yeah.
Keith PaughI mean, why not? Yeah. Don't need to pull it up. Just laying on the floor. Where do you live now? I live here in Los Angeles. I don't live more than a few miles away from Trent, actually.
Trenton ReynoldsYou guys are technically in Mar Vista? In Mar Vista.
Keith PaughYeah, most people in Mar Vista don't know that it's necessarily called Mar Vista. Is that right? It's becoming more common now, but when we first moved there. it was in between Venice and Culver City was the easiest way to describe it.
Trenton ReynoldsSo maybe it would be worthwhile giving a little bit of background information on how I met Keith. Do you remember? I don't. Yeah, me either. But we actually, and a lot of memories came back watching one of the videos on on Cargo Collective. - Oh dear. - We have a lot of overlapping friends in social circles. So I'm sure just over the years, probably even back to being in Provo. - Probably. - We probably have run across each other at various parties or events or whatever. - Yeah. - So Keith and I both went to BYU undergrad.
- Mm-hmm.
Trenton ReynoldsWere you at BYU Underground? - I was. - Yeah, okay. - Yeah. - Just wanted to make any sense. - Sure. - So, and Keith was very involved in the arts and music scene in Bravo. So a lot of the people in the art program were friends of mine, 'cause that's what I was doing at BYU. And so that's probably the beginning. Yes. Or at least kind of part of the history. But I don't think it was until I moved to LA from Chicago in 2007. That was after I graduated or finished grad school, moved back to LA and Keith was one of the first people that actually like, I remember, befriended me. I think, I remember it being difficult to like break into, I don't know, I started just to find friends in Santa Monica area. I was teaching at Santa Monica College or shortly thereafter I'd teach in Santa Monica College. And there were two or three people I remember being especially open and welcoming.
Keith PaughThat's nice to hear.
Trenton ReynoldsIn retrospect, I passed. So I remember I had a question specifically about oh, and I was friends with Aaron Fox. You lived in the same building. I had a question about audio. I was trying to sync audio between like a handheld device and a camcorder, something like that. And you gave me a recommendation on PluralEyes, I think, at the time. That's my longest-ago memory. And then I think through, by hanging out with Aaron, and we also go to the same church, which is currently probably where we see the most of each other. - Uh-huh. just found that I think over the course of many years I've had the occasion to talk and find that you know there's a lot of overlap in our interests and and things that we're both kind of wading through at this time in life yeah that's for sure yeah yeah I just always remember
Keith Paughthe first thing I knew about you was that you were a painter and for one reason or another many of my friends are are painters either from college or since so I just remember thinking okay this guy's this guy's one of us he's good
Trenton Reynoldsthere is kind of a and I remember this when I was in
Keith Paughwhen in high school I was jealous of that I think that ability
Trenton Reynoldsso I always admire it I think that um I remember in high school I remember a period of time where I was an artist I think um and in art classes because that is a way that I I could separate myself from my brothers. I'm the fourth of six boys. So it was kind of an identity thing. But I remember there, over the course of a year or two, I started realizing that I just love the people. Like I love that community. I love the way artists talk. I love the attitude and that I felt comfortable. Like they felt like my people. And I don't think it had to do with you know, somebody being a sculptor or a musician, you know, like the medium. It was just kind of an outlook on life that I felt some kind of resonance with. So, I don't know, I feel that kind of kinship. And it's pretty readily apparent, I think, when you meet somebody if they're, you know, in sync with that.
Keith Paugh- Yeah, yeah. - Does that make sense? - Absolutely, in fact, when you talk about school, the one thing I always remember about school, or maybe even miss about school, is that it's an environment where you are forced into situations where you're exposed to things you wouldn't seek out on your own. either through the classes that you are, you have to take, or just the things that the people you meet are doing, the things that are all concentrated and happening on a campus so that you just walk into them. And I remember missing that after I graduated. I missed, oh, like... where am I going to stumble into an opera by accident? Where am I going to walk through a building and find an art opening going on? Where am I going to be exposed to that and inspired by things that I would never have sought out consciously on my own? And I think where you do find that now is kind of interacting with people that you haven't previously seen. hopefully finding something that you weren't expecting.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd it's like we're really lucky that that's something, a lot of people don't have that sense of connection to a creative, well, maybe take that out. I'm not sounding like we're so lucky. But, you know, that we have something we're really interested in. Being a creative person is something that, Well, it's also well, I'm thinking multiple things in different directions. It's also we're not always very social people as creative people. So having a friend, hearing you talk, it's such a good, just a blah, blah, blah. It's wonderful to hear. that you guys are friends. Sorry, I've never really talked to a friend of Trent's before. So it's really, I really like, I guess I'm thinking of my friend, like my friend Jesse, who's a painter in Chicago, and how just having someone that's a good friend, that's like-minded like that.
Yeah.
Keith PaughYou know, I was thinking about this earlier today, but I think that's actually sort of my attraction to your show as well, is there's something familiar and soothing about the nature of the conversations that you guys have on the show that reminds me of... just again being presented with with ideas that I I didn't either conjure on my own or didn't encounter on my own but two other people are having and you know having my reaction to yeah thank you I was gonna say I think that's one of the
Trenton Reynoldsthings I love so much about podcasts I personally listen to a lot of podcasts and there's a sense that you're getting, there's a kind of intimacy to the type of communication that happens in a podcast. Because it's so accessible, because it's for both the producer and the consumer, I think it can afford to be not very precious and therefore more open, like less produced, less, you know, there's less of a feeling of a barrier between the person who's creating the content and the person that's consuming it or listening. And I know that that allows me to really connect with the people in having these conversations about topics that I, you know, care about. I agree with you.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's uh... I like your... I like... I... Trent likes to tie things up with a bow.
Trenton ReynoldsI like to... Riley's up. Riley's up clean.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI tend to not have many bows in my life. I've got knots. Got tangles. I thought it was great when you... The last email, I don't know if you guys got it, just responding with... Keith, you mentioning about there could be a topic, a possible episode about what do you do if you don't have work that you have right now that you're ready, that you're proud of? Potential episode about what if you haven't made work you are proud of yet?
Yeah.
Keith PaughDoesn't have to be. Yeah. Often you're called upon to present yourself and you kind of know what you've done and know what you've wanted to do or what you intend to do or hope to do and those two aren't always the same at the moment.
Trenton ReynoldsRight.
the challenge.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, you're an artist. Let me see what you do. Don't you just kind of go blank?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI feel like I just go blank when someone asks me that. Like, you don't know what... You don't know where to begin. Because everything also, when it's... Everything you've already made has been made. You're an artist to keep making. It doesn't feel like... I'm not... You're never the work that, I guess, that you just did. Am I having a problem speaking English today? I feel really...
Keith PaughI'm just super intimidated, is what it is.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonNo, no, no! I just feel I'm really not articulating myself very well.
Keith PaughI always think of it, too, because I wholeheartedly agree that the worst thing somebody can ask me is the thing that is inevitably going to come up first every time. is what do you do? And I hate it for a myriad of reasons, but my background is in film, so I worked in the film industry in various capacities for a number of years. That's what brought me down to L.A. and things, but in the meantime, in between those jobs, I've done all these other things, so like,
Trenton ReynoldsI was like a carpenter for a little while,
Keith Paughand I was a teacher for a while, you kinda name it. Then I was working for an airline, and then after that I was, I started a clothing company with my wife when we were first married, and now we're running her interior design business. So it's like when anybody asks that, my experience is so schizophrenic. It's like I have no idea what the right answer is. And whatever answer I give always feels a little bit like a lie. A little bit like, how do I want to present? How do I want to color this this time? And then in terms of what you've...
Trenton ReynoldsHow would you like to be able to present? yourself? Would you like to be able to say like I'm a filmmaker, I'm a writer,
Keith PaughI'm a director? Like in a perfect world? Yeah, that's a good, that's a good question. I think I always, the intended goal was always to be a director and that has been the goal at some points. It's interesting how that has changed, I would say,
from,
Keith PaughI guess at one point in my life, the other point I was gonna say was,
I always,
Keith PaughI realized that so much of our identity was tied up in what you did. And that seemed incongruous with kind of, the myriad of interests and traits that people have inside of them. I've always been much more attracted to sort of the Renaissance man idea of not limiting yourself to one thing and being able to explore other things. it's funny how now I'm almost the complete opposite. It's like, oh, I should have just been an accountant. Because if you can count the beans, then you can go and work for anybody doing whatever cool thing they're doing. It's like - Right. - You know, you want to work for the artist? You can go be in that world in a heartbeat.
Trenton Reynolds- Sabrina and I have, I think at various times, both said that, like, what are we trying to do here? - Yeah. - And ultimately, how did we ever think that this could possibly work? work right like at what point did was it a sane idea for me to think that i was going to make paintings and sell them and be able to provide for a family that way right when did that ever make sense you know let alone let alone now like that's just craziness but and i hear the i hear the logic behind what you're saying is like well i should have just i should have just gone the medical school and then I could have just been a doctor some of the time and then split the time and that could have paid for me doing artwork. Right. But I think the reality of that is that once you go down that path, that's putting your ladder up against a completely different building, right? Right. Whatever metaphor you want to use, if you get too far away from what it is that you to do. I just think there's too many things in life that make it difficult to get back. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think it's a, it's, it's a huge, there are huge amounts of compromise that, that to be made. Like, I don't think you can kind of, you can have both things
Keith Paughor, or maybe not. Maybe, what do you think? Uh, I was wondering why you're saying that I was wondering if you ever had the thought at any point, um, when, you were kind of creating that self-denial of, no, no, this will work. We'll go do this and we'll be fine. Did you ever have the thought of, oh, well, somebody's got to make it. It might as well be me. Like, it could be me.
Yeah. right
Keith Paughdid you ever have that one uh huh yeah yeah it's like oh it happens all the time it just doesn't happen to everybody it might be me let's just roll the dice and see yeah I'll be the lucky one
Trenton Reynoldsand I've met people you know in my life that have been trying to do what I thought I was trying to do and I looked at them and said man they just don't they don't see it right They don't see that it's impossible what they're trying to do. But I'm going to do it. Right. But I got some other different quality that somehow is going to work for me, and I'll be able to do it, whatever that may be.
Keith PaughThat's interesting. I go back and forth on that one. I go back and forth all the time on... Is it just impossible or is it an exercise in diligence? Is it just the person who stays in the longest eventually wins?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's like it goes back to that Brene Brown quote about stepping into the arena.
a little bit
Keith Paughin terms of just being in it you gotta be in it yeah you gotta step in
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI think there's a lot of
Keith Paughthat's an Eric B. and Rakim quote by the way I'll cite my source it's a what? yeah it's a hip hop song yeah
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI have that feeling sometimes I think I just go wait what am I doing wait what am I doing I think about deep big ideas and vision and then I suddenly go wait what am I doing I wake up and just oh
Trenton Reynoldsone of the things that I've appreciated about Keith specifically and and one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show is that you're one of the few people that I can go to and I'm I don't feel apologetic to tell you what crazy thing I'm doing now to try to make it work you know cause like I'm my wife and I are gonna try to do a mural business. You know, we've never done it before. Right. This time, this thing might work and I've probably, I've probably told you about five or six hair-brained ideas that I was going to head into and every time I've told you about that, like, I could see it in your expression that you were excited for me and you're like, yeah, man, you gotta try that. You gotta go for it. Whereas so often I feel like I present my ideas to family members or to other friends and there's this immediate oh, how's that gonna work? I can see it. I feel this resistance from them. Whereas with you, it's not only permission. It's not only encouragement. You're excited for me to give it a try but I can see your wheels churning on like, well, how can, how can you help me? Or like, how can you like encourage me, give me ideas? Like it be, you become part of the conversation almost immediately. It rather, and it becomes this generative thing rather than something that I have to feel self-conscious about or, um, you know, apologetic almost about. Anyway, I think that's another reason, I think, and another thing that sets apart people that I tend to connect to and respond to really well. It's like this, I don't know, as if it's an inherent sense of, the value of trying, of creating, of building, or I don't know. I don't know how... Do you guys, do either of you have people like that in your life where you feel like, you know, I don't know, permission to speak your intentions no matter how crazy they might seem or yep
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI don't know how to I mean a couple friends I don't know how to not do that I guess
Keith PaughI wonder if it's a product of sort of being in that situation yourself too kind of what we were talking about before we made certain choices based on what we were drawn to and now you're in it for better or for worse. And when you come up with these ideas of how to make it work, or maybe it's just the way that you are changing and the things that you are now attracted to, how could you almost not be excited about that? Like, oh, you've got an idea about what the next thing is? you know, the next adventure to have or the next thing to explore.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSo let's get specific. I want to hear, what are you in the middle of? What are you in the middle of, Keith? What do you want to be doing?
Keith PaughRight. Sure. I was thinking about what Trent was doing, and I... You gotta turn it on me. So right now, my wife and I have started this interior design business. She has been doing interior design for a number of years and we're now trying to figure out how to take it to to the next level I guess so to speak and she has been working with a friend of ours who does a lot of flips a lot of home flips a lot of home renovations so the logical direction for us to go I think is probably to do to do our own and to do your own meaning to do our own flips buying houses renovating and then selling them them. And I think the, the, the cost of entry is always just simply monetary in, in especially where Trent and I live currently.
For sure.
Keith PaughSo that's, those are the, those are the problems where, where, we're trying to solve now of investment and how to make that a reality. But that's pretty exciting. You know, the thing I've always loved when, I guess, just when faced with problems you haven't encountered before is usually because you are forced to enter a new arena or learn a new skill and develop abilities you maybe didn't have before or hadn't had opportunity to develop before.
Trenton ReynoldsBoth of you come from creative backgrounds and creative educations. Did you feel equipped to do the business side of things? Did less feel able to take those things on?
Keith PaughI've kind of taken over that role. I probably spearhead that role. We do it together. But, you know, like I said, I was doing... working predominantly in the film world for a number of years and then completely switched gears and was working in aviation in an office and discovered that I really actually like that sort of thing. There's a completely separate... artistry to it, I guess you could say, that I found very rewarding. What artistry to it?
Oh, just...
Keith PaughSo often we talk about those types of jobs as being dull or... I guess this is the antithesis of... of, uh...
I can't even think of...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWell, just like what did you enjoy about it? Like, just specifically what...
Keith PaughYeah. I think it's just the specific... meeting a challenge and... and, uh...
Sabrina Ward Harrisonovercoming it. But like what maybe I mean just like what in aviation would be
Keith Paughsomething like what kind of thing? I was trying to think of a good example so I was working in the membership department this was a an all-you-could-fly membership based airline. And every day there would be some account or some individual that, you know, had a complaint or had a problem or needed something solved. And I just guess it wasn't something that I realized in that job, but it was something I got to exercise regularly of, you know, just doing that that process just me meeting a problem and figuring out how to yeah how to find the solution but even the airline airline aside i found that i think i i've liked that there's a part of my personality that enjoys that side of things and with my wife's business it's just very similar it's okay well if we want to move in this direction, if we want to do our own renovations, we need money. It's like, okay, well, how do we get money, figure out what possibilities, what's looped to that, that problem that there are and just kind of meeting one hurdle at a time. kind of its own thrill. That's not a very good answer. No, it's a really good answer.
Trenton ReynoldsYou know, what I was thinking about is that there's a kind of problem solving that happens even in painting, right? And that I think is similar, like you're dealing with, you know, matching color. right so you've got to figure out what colors of paints you need to put together to be able to match this color that's on the canvas or color harmonies or just a material quality like I need to thin this paint out so I need to find the right medium to to thin this out I don't know if these are the best examples of it but but what I'm saying is I think we tend to think of that type of problem-solving as specific to making a painting mm-hmm but I the more that I've attempted all these different projects that I've attempted you know getting a new studio space or painting a mural or you know all or you know trying to figure out business logistics of how to to build a business or how to grow my social media presence, the more I realize that these are the same, it's the same process that I would go through in, or a similar process that I would go through in solving a painting problem or in creating a composition or think about what my painting is even about or what subject matter I'm interested in. And I think we sell ourselves short by thinking that those are separate skills. Yes. And that we have developed these, you know, as artists, having that mindset, having that worldview, those skills are... can be as applicable and creative applied to a different entirely different mode like you know business as they are I think when they're applied to to painting or any any other type of creative medium and I think that that's a very different mindset and that that that way of thinking and problem solving a very different mindset than what you're taught in you know, formal education for business, say. I think there are two very different ways to view the world and to problem solve. And I think if done successfully, I think, you know, coming from a creative side into that business environment can be a very powerful, you know, powerful tool. powerful combination.
Keith PaughYeah, yeah. I was thinking how I remember realizing, kind of having the same experience you mentioned before of why did I even think I could do this, do this thing? And then as I've gotten older maybe, I realized that almost every job is exactly the same thing. If you're a scientist, you want to study a certain thing, you need to get a grant to do it. If you're an artist, you need to figure out some way that you can support yourself while doing it or fund it. It's all the same. same issues that affect every pursuit or passion, I think. And we're the ones that compartmentalize those, I think, more than the reality of them would.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd I think also just being a creative person, there's a lot of things we don't... necessarily very slick with, but we are really good at creative problem solving, I must say. I think that comes with, that is a, you find, I feel sometimes like, well that was a really creative way to solve the problem. You know, like creative problem solving in your own artwork, but then also just in the world in general, I feel sometimes like that comes in handy.
Trenton ReynoldsI think that's that is the nature of creativity and I think like putting things together that haven't been together before you know find ways to use something that's you know thought of in a particular context and taking it in a completely different context and using it to solve a completely different problem seeing connections where there previously were none I think is that's what it creativity is. And I think that is not that, I don't know, that process, that skill, that ability, that talent, whatever it is, is not developed, I don't think, as much in, you know, scientific or, I don't know, in other disciplines. Whereas I think it's kind of what we do when it comes to, you know, the creative fields. It's like that's what we're here for, you know, to do something that's never been done, to bring something into the world that's in your head and in your heart and figure out how to get it here, which requires doing things in ways that they've never been done. I still feel like, I think Sabrina rightly so, I think you're pointing out that maybe we're being too general, too kind of large, big picture.
we need to
Trenton Reynoldsso let me let me ask Keith this question I have watched so we're going to put this in the show notes but there are Keith has some videos on a Cargo Collective account and also is a great person to follow on Instagram is your is specific that you feel like you're trying to communicate in your films or in your projects, even if they're for somebody else? Is it about bringing a sense of personality or humanity? You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm, yeah.
Um...
Keith PaughI was trying to think if there was one that was overarching or if it was different every time. But no, I think there's definitely...
Trenton ReynoldsLet me give you an example. Yeah, please. So on Cargo Collective, there's a video of people sitting in a black environment and chalk erasers from a chalkboard that have been filled with chalk dust are being thrown at their face in slow motion. and these people are like clean, well-groomed, and then just with this kind of serene music, they're being pelted from both sides with dirty chalk erasers, and their face is getting covered with chalk and glitter coming from the other side. The way that it's shot, there's a silliness to it. There's a... I don't know. Whimsy. There's a whimsy, but there's also gravity there. There's also kind of something, I don't know, there's a love there, a love for these people, a respect for these people. I mean, it's not like you're hitting these people in the face with chalk racers that you are trying to mock, right? It's done out of, like, you feel like you're laughing with these people instead of at them. I don't know. So there's this balance between, man, I don't know, whimsy, silliness, but also kind of a gravity, a deep respect and love for people.
Keith Paugh- Yeah, you know, the thing that keeps coming to mind is I have a love of simplicity, I think, of examining kind of the simple things or things in their simplicity to, you know, Like, I remember the one that you... The short that you just mentioned and another one we did was just slow-motion dives. And when I was talking about it with the friend of mine I made it with, it was just the idea of... Everybody likes watching... people, you know, things in slow motion. This was way before it was all over the place. Right. Everyone enjoys that, you know, or let's do that. And it doesn't have to be more than that. Can we make it entertaining and have it just be this one idea distilled down into, is there merit there? Is there value there? Yeah. can we experiment with that and still find humor and something enjoyable and worth looking at? I think that is prevailing in a lot of the things I'm attracted to and and seek out just that idea of, is there a little idea that we can examine and honor by that examination and find something interesting and of merit in it?
Trenton Reynolds- Something, yeah, I don't know.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhat are some of the films or things that really inspire you that are some of your favorite things?
I think films that...
Keith PaughI'm drawn to that in other films as well. Like which ones? I was going to say there's a Japanese filmmaker by the name of Ozu who... made films about family life in Japan. And upon first glance, they almost seem extremely mundane. Their pacing is very deliberate. You see people going about their daily lives and... there's not the normal amount of structure and plot that we're used to to in large degree but as you watch these people just interact with one another and and see and feel out there they affect one another you start to to feel such a profound insight into what families are and what yours is like and... and I think that I'm definitely attracted to to to films that do just that that do slow down and take take time to
examine
Keith Paughthe the simple simple ideas rather than have to wow you with a complex idea or
Trenton Reynoldsthere's another film of yours that I don't think was on Cargo Collective but I remember it's you and some friends just I think it was just you guys riding bikes around town. Am I getting that right? I'm trying to remember which one that might be. Very well. But even if it was very simple like that, though, I mean, it was just like you and some friends, there was no like clear plot or beginning or ending other than, you know, there's no sense of an arc, you know, it was just kind of you guys hanging out.
Keith PaughOh yes, oh yeah, I know, yeah, it wasn't on bikes, but yeah, on skateboards. On skateboards. Yeah, yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsSo, you guys just kind of hanging out, going around town, cruising?
Keith PaughYeah, yeah, that was a film, I believe there was a breakup at the beginning of it, and I was thinking about the idea of, in those moments that are tumultuous, there's not really a set, set of steps to deal with them. And often we just turn to being with someone, and just literally being rather than doing a specific thing. specific thing to solve the problem. It's really just sort of through being with one another that we can heal things and just pass the time necessary to heal.
Sabrina Ward Harrison- Do you film your children? What's your kind of, how do you incorporate How does that, does that naturally, like growing up, my dad sort of says he taught himself film, he's a filmmaker, and taught himself film in a way by filming and doing, at that time it was the Super 8. He shot a lot of, and photographed a lot of my childhood and my sister's childhood.
Keith PaughYeah, I especially still, I'll shoot my children all the time. In fact, I struggle with, I think, some of my better work being of them. And I don't always release that to the world. but
um
Keith Paughthere's a there are a ready subject or a subject at the ready at all the all the time and in spite even in in spite of your your fondness for them they're usually good good subjects they're always on the move and in providing you with an image that you might not always have access to otherwise have access to
Trenton Reynoldswell that I think all these all the things that you were just saying though and I'm trying to put a bow on it again and it's a bad habit I just can't have myself gotta do it gotta do it so the interest is in taking these mundane moments or mundane relationships so you have a breakup and what happens then right and oftentimes is something very you know it's not this big momentous like i'm going to go kill myself or i'm going to go on an epic journey i'm just going to go hang out with friends and like go around town a little bit right and it seems in in what you're saying is like is that enough is there enough there to examine you know that merits uh you know a film or a merit it's a dive into it, right? And there's a beauty in that simplicity or there's in just the fact that we are, right? That we're tooling around day in and day out, right? We're living, doing, doing these seemingly simple things, but I don't know. What I get from what you're saying, and I think something that I appreciate about your work, and I think this comes across really well, is just a joy in being. Yeah. And there's not, you're not using filmmaking or art making as a way to push a story, as a story. or push your viewer through a sequence of events, you're just helping them slow down and observe and appreciate a simple relationship or a simple action or a simple state of being. And I think that's, you know, admirable. It's not, I think it's harder, it demands more people because we are in such a fast-paced world that we want to be force-fed a narrative. We want to be force-fed an idea and we're not comfortable typically with having to consider, you know, something that feels so normal as a thing that's worthy of our time and attention, right? So it challenges us to say like, maybe I do maybe this is something that I need to appreciate
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI love films like that I love
Trenton Reynoldscan you think of any one thing that
Sabrina Ward Harrisonwell there's so many but like even just thinking of Boyhood you know that wonderful Richard Linklater film where he shot over the 10 years I just that's the one that I just love the concept of
um
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThere's, um, oh, there's one that I love. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Trenton Reynolds- Well Sabrina, I'm thinking of your videos as well, that there's this, there's a kind of a feeling, there's this montage, like you typically have, you'll even have different sizes of video, right? So the frame will fill the screen, and then all of a sudden it will be cropped down, and there's this, um, collage feel to your videos. But similarly, I don't, there often is not much of an arc, a story arc. It's more of just impressions of its color, its simple relationships, its environment. And I think similarly is a celebration of just being in a...
Keith Paugh--You asked me what are the motivations of my of my work at one point. I was trying to think of what compels someone to create and what compels me to create. And often, at least specifically with film, it's a very distinct one that I've not always really been comfortable with completely. Just simply, there are all of these, in this case, directors whose work I love and has been so important to me or just has been so enjoyable to me that I've always just had this desire to be their contemporaries and not their contemporaries for any...
um
Keith Paughuh the ulterior motive but really just to to give something back to the pool of creation that has been so important to me um and
and
Keith Paughyou know, people talk all the time about how there's, you know, it's so hard to come up with something original or something truly unique to yourself. And yet, I think with all art... are all works of creativity, that's an impossibility, but you really just filter through all the things that you like and all the things that you are inspired by and then see what comes out as you retell it the way you saw it.
Trenton Reynolds- Who are some of the creators or filmmakers that you feel? you want to um
Keith Paughoh I remember you mentioned Wes Anderson that's that's undeniable I remember seeing his first film in high school and um being almost confused by it liking it so much but not knowing that that that was a that was a movie you could make a make a movie that was uh that off kilter and and to zero in on something and tell a story quietly. Other foreign directors tend to probably feel at liberty to do that a little bit more. So directors like Wong Kar-wai has a lot, have films that do do just that in a very beautiful way. Atmospheric, Terrence Malick, like Tree of Life, A New World. I just just re-watched A New the new world over Thanksgiving.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd... I haven't seen that. Is that...
Keith PaughOh, that's a story of John Smith and Pocahontas when settlers came to the Americas, or European settlers came to the Americas for the first time. But it's just, there's nothing like it where...
Um...
Keith PaughA film takes the time just to sit in a world foreign to your own and allow you to get past the discomfort of it until you can start seeing perhaps what the characters therein are seeing. just in that case nature and one another and and just the complete alien environment that both both parties and at least that situation were thrust into
Trenton Reynoldshmm it's something that that made me think of is a I remember in college I went to a cigar oh god yes experience, you know, where I'd been kind of taken through this epic journey and spit out the other end. Anyway, they just slay. It wasn't easy and it wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. It demanded things of me. And right through that, I don't know, immersion or through that, the investment that I had to give to it, I think it made it a much more sublime experience.
Keith PaughDavid Gordon Green is a director I love his work yeah and I I always people are like oh did you like did you like the movie and I always had the same reaction of like oh I'm not sure yet like you gotta let me I'll let you know tomorrow after I sit with this a little bit to process it. That's interesting you said that. Oh, sorry. I think there's... No, please go ahead.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's interesting you said his name because that's the first film that came to my mind was one of his when I was not remembering it. All the Real Girls. Yeah, that's my favorite. That's one of my favorites, too. Trenton, have you seen that?
Oh, God. God, it's so good.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI have the DVD.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI've watched that film so many times. I find, so that's interesting you said that. Not a lot of people have seen that. I loved hearing him talk about that film and making that film. Yeah.
Keith Paugh--Yeah. Yeah, I remember seeing that at a specific theater here in LA and in walking out and they're like, What did you think? I was like, I have no idea what to think just yet. And then just knowing that that was what I was in for as I saw other films of his and really looking forward to it.
Sabrina Ward Harrisonthat I yeah I loved I love that it makes me want to go and make films right now can we go make a
Keith Paughfilm right now that's probably a good example though right that movie is about one very very simple thing of of this relationship and yet not in the romantic comedy way but um just a really close examination of of what happens when people come together and then in that case go apart and um where's the humor in that and where's the pain in that and um how they all all mixed in together yeah
Hmm.
Trenton Reynoldswhy is it that we uh this is making me feel like we all have this need to to take the hard way right you're talking about like a very demanding movie that requires you to really invest in the think all the things that we're attempting to do creatively is definitely the hard way, right? Like in terms of just living this life and solving the problem of, you know, just meeting our needs day to day and providing for the family, providing for yourself, finding for shelter, food, right? I don't know. Sometimes I just feel like I have proven to myself, I don't feel this way consciously, but it seems to like I've proven to myself and my family and others that I have to make it complicated. to
Sabrina Ward Harrisonhere's something maybe it's also it's only it's complicated when other people are really watching you know I think there's complicated to yourself but I find I find myself become I become self-conscious when if other people are really watching me try to solve it like in real time like life you know, there's a little bit of, like, sometimes I feel like, let me just figure out life, and then I'll settle down and relax.
Trenton ReynoldsMaybe that's it, it's just that life isn't really complicated.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, and it's, and, I think we're built to see who we are. We're who we are. We're people. We're curious. We're just, we notice, we live in the details. We live in the, we're really in the experience.
Keith PaughThe minutia. Yeah. Yeah, and there's also, just like others, there's the aspect of you get out what you put in, right? So the more you engage with anything, the more meaningful it is to you. the more you end up getting out of it simply by virtue of having risked putting yourself into it. And be it literature or a film, something that actually expects something of you and expects you to think about it while you're watching it or be okay with not understanding it every second of the time you're watching. I think that that's going to be more of a lasting experience and certainly one you might come away with having thought something new or learned something or felt something that was
Sabrina Ward Harrisongonna be of any lasting importance. I feel like my life I have that's how you know it gets confusing it does get confusing when you're just thinking about like oh my gosh I've got to pay my rent oh my gosh I've got it you know not have that that credit card be declined. But then there's also just, somehow, you know, the fire under your butt to do that, there's creative ingenuity and then there's some of the, Didn't my dad say in the talk, when he was talking, like the fear, you know, that fear can just drive, you know, that gets some creative, this creativity in that fear.
Trenton Reynolds- Yeah, so maybe it's not just that it's hard to do, you know, make your way as an artist, but that difficulty, that resistance is important to the creative process. So it's kind of, it's a necessary ingredient, you know, for it to be there.
Keith PaughI loved your idea, or the quote you mentioned in it before of... uh, that you, you begin, you begin to produce art when the pain of, of not, of not making art is greater than the pain of actually making the art. That's certainly been the case in my experience of just even this, this, the simple aspect of, Oh, this is a good idea. I don't really want to flesh it out and write it down and create it because it's never going to be as good as it is in my head, or it's going to be so much work to make it as good as it is in my head and the only way to ever I ever get those things out is when it becomes too painful not to and it's painful to do that even that was the thought I kept having was that process of even just grinding it out is often part of that that pain that you have to overcome
Trenton ReynoldsI was talking to my dad one time, and I'm not going to represent his words very well here because the memory is pretty fuzzy, but I remember him saying that he wished he could feel more excited about or amazed by simple things like sand. Think of how many elements are in the sand and what the processes were that needed to happen on a geological level. level for that sand to be there. And like even in something as simple as sand, that represents something so huge and amazing. And we should feel that kind of appreciation and intensity about these things that just surround us daily, right? And he wanted, he wished he knew how to develop that.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonHe needs to smoke some pot. There are substances that can help you. Just smoke some pot and go to the beach and just... Sorry, just don't have to include that in Dr. Reynolds, but...
Trenton Reynolds- No, him saying that though was kind of profound for me because I think, I remember at the time, it might have been even in that conversation I was telling him about how I had been in the subway and I saw this post. and somebody had pulled away a big chunk of paint off this post and it revealed like 20 layers of different colors, kind of like what you're saying about the linoleum before. 20 layers of different colors of paint from, you know, previous times that post had been painted. And it was like just visually beautiful. The colors were beautiful. The shapes that were made, the relationship to these cracks that were on the post and the paint as well. I felt... just a certain amount of joy and pleasure just from seeing that little chunk of paint missing on this post. And then hearing my dad say that helped me realize the, I don't know, what I feel is a gift that was given to me through the process of becoming an artist, the process through the training that I've got. and various schools of, like I really do think we are taught and given the chance to develop that appreciation, that intense joy in the material world around us. And I feel that especially for working with paint and studio art, like physical materials. But I imagine a similar thing could be said of, video where you are taught to frame things. You're taught to understand visual language. You're taught to understand why people interact the way they do. You're forced to really consider those things and dig deep. And therefore, like you're saying, you feel more connected and engaged and I don't know. I think that makes your life richer. Anyway.
Keith PaughYeah, I was thinking about how, like... The experience of...
Um...
Keith Paughor the excitement when somebody appreciates a work the same way you do, that kinship that you feel when somebody either likes a film or you know, you find out that they share an interest that you do. And there's something to that. There's not only a shorthand that you have with someone of a shared interest or a shared way to see the world, but in my experience, it inspires a desire or... instills a desire to to try to communicate more of that yeah of yourself to others and see see if anybody else had you know had this react this thought or has anybody else thought this thing before noticed this thing that people do or they had this experience You're getting me, Sabrina. Explain it better than I am.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt makes me think of that line, the deeper you go, the more universal you become.
You know?
Sabrina Ward Harrisonso the more it's all the depth of the detail. You know, like, Trent, for you picking out those details in Keith's films, like, there's something that spoke to you or stirred something quietly in you from those details and what, you know, the riding the bikes, the chalk and the... There's something...
Trenton ReynoldsIt's just me, right? It's just my thought. And in reality, I think that's what we crave, is those, you know, connecting with other people who are thinking that simple thought, or having that simple experience, and being able to look over and say, oh, you thought that too, or that's, that's, awesome thought you just have or the way of seeing something or I don't know I think it's easy to just go to a really self-deprecating place and thinking that what you have to say or what you've created isn't going to be significant to somebody.
Keith Paughelse. Or isn't enough. Yeah, isn't enough of an idea. Yeah, that's a big one when you're dealing
Sabrina Ward Harrisonwith the details of life, you know, that's a big voice that I hear all the time, like, that's not enough. That is not enough, and not trusting you can step back, you know, step away, let it speak, you know, don't over say it. Right, right. Or at least let's see if it's enough. Right.
Keith PaughYou know, it was enough to, it was enough for you to have thought that it might be worthy of exploring. Now can you let yourself actually see if others think the same?
Trenton Reynoldssame. Well, we are, we've gone over an hour. Do we have anything? Yes, it is enough, Keith. But maybe just in closing, any thoughts? Any final, I don't Anything that's come to mind over the course of our conversation? For many of us or for you? We'll start with you. Or Sabrina, if you're ready to jump in.
Um...
Trenton Reynoldswell we can just leave it at that too we don't have to this is me again trying to wrap it up in a bow so we don't necessarily need to Let's do this, and you interrupt me anytime you want, Keith. If people want to see more of your work, more of your films, or projects that you've been working on, regardless of what they are, Cargo Collective, what's the exact? - What's the exact address for people?
Keith Paugh- It's keithpaw/cargocollective.com. - Okay. - Almost positive.
- Do you wanna spell that?
Keith Paugh- K-E-I-T-H-P-A-U-G-H.
Trenton Reynolds-.cargocollective.com. No, we're getting a backslash. Would it be cargo collective.com backslash Keith? It might be. I haven't typed it out in a long time. Let's do that. Oops. there we go okay so if you want to see more of Keith Pa's work you can go to cargocollective.com backslash Keith Pa that's spelled K-E-I-T-H P-A-U-G-H and then you also have an Instagram account at at KP collected KP collected
Keith PaughYep, at kpcollected. Oh, that's right. Of course, yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsI was waiting for the rest of it. That's it. At kpcollected. And then your wife's website, where you can see what Keith and Leslie are up to with her interior design business is? Lesliepaw.com.
www.lesliepaw.com. Right.
Trenton ReynoldsI think we'll call it a good. Thank you so much for spending time. My pleasure.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. And we should all, at some point, we'll hang out in Madison all together one day.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThat would be good. Do you know if Sabrina's in Madison? I don't know.
Keith PaughI did, yeah, which I've never been.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI want to say a little something that's sort of separate than trying to wrap this up with a bow. I just thought maybe we could share a little, or Trent, you and I can record this. Well, actually, we aren't going to have time. Tomorrow's my birthday. Okay. and I haven't been excited about a birthday in a long time and I'm excited for it tomorrow and I'm having a soup party I'm having a part a birthday party I haven't had I haven't had a birthday party in years and you know there's a lot of strategic organizing that's I'm sending the dogs off for the weekend it's like no dogs are coming to this party My friend Jesse's coming up from Chicago and I'm just really, I'm really looking forward to it. I feel like I've been very, the past six months, five months, five and a half months have been, I've worked really hard and I feel really proud of my birthday coming. coming up tomorrow. I feel really good about it.
Trenton ReynoldsSo you really and as somebody who's been around for the last six months and seen or at least talked to you about it as it's happened, you have it's been a tremendous amount of effort on your part and you've done. It's been awesome to see. It's been inspiring to me for sure. I'm so excited for you. That's fantastic. And the soup part.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd I, and then we had a little, speaking of kitchen floors, there's a little bit of a thing that happened with the situation at my house where the sinks in the kitchen got, are totally blocked. Yeah. And this young guy, he seemed about 13, came over. This plumber came over today and he was just one of those, you know, some people that come over to pick something are like just keeping themselves, like every minute, moment I stepped away from the kitchen and be like, "Oh my gosh, check out what I just saw. "Oh, oh, oh, oh, ooh, this looks terrible. "Oh no, I've never seen this before. "Oh, this is awful." and I was like just oh fix it so I have like three days full of dishes and like everything and I just am like really really wanting to be able to clean and have it be lovely and um Anyway, it's just... What soups? Well... What's your favorite? What's your... I'm drawn to sort of like a coconut curry, like yummy, like maybe pumpkin, something squash. My friend Jessie's going to bring... She's making a soup in Chicago that's like a mushroom barley, and then... I'm not really sure. I haven't decided. I haven't decided. I've been cooking soup for myself consistently for about four months straight. The past three months have been very soup intensive. So I eat pretty much anything and everything. But I'm getting a little bit like a little performance anxiety about the soup that I'm presenting on Sunday.
Keith PaughI like it. It's a seasonally appropriate party.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd everyone's bringing their own soup spoon because I don't have enough silverware.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, that is fantastic. So you haven't decided on the flavor of soup you're making? No, no, I haven't.
I kind of forgot.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI was focused on organizing. Like, I have so much stuff everywhere. so many little bits and pieces and supplies everywhere. And so I'm doing this massive overhaul. So I kind of forgot about the soup. But the party's not till Sunday. So I have a little time.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, I believe in you. I think you're going to make the soup the best one.
Thanks. Awesome. well
Trenton Reynoldswhile I'm thinking of it Sabrina you need to go to cargocollective.com backslash Keith Paul when you get a chance and make sure you watch the Shireen Vintage documentary
Sabrina Ward Harrisonwill you email me the link to that
Trenton Reynoldsyes let me send you can I text it to you?
sure
Sabrina Ward HarrisonKeith I wanted to when I first saw the picture of you on the IMGM or IM whatever it's called IMDB your hair and I sent a random message and I said can we just have the whole episode about Keith talking about his hair because
Trenton Reynoldsthat hair is incredible that's a full episode that hair how long did you have it?
Keith PaughI had it for a number of years. Yeah, like from end of high school on, and then obviously cut it to go on a mission, and then came back, and it slowly grew out when I moved out here to L.A. When I moved down to L.A., we were making a movie with about five of my friends, and I had my hair long for that, at least for that photo that's on the IMD. B page specifically but yeah while you got it you gotta grow it out
Sabrina Ward Harrisonit's really good it's got great volume and energy
Trenton Reynoldswe should put that one in should we put that one in the picture?
Sabrina Ward Harrisonmy friend Molly and I used to do something that I still to this day I think is hilarious we'll make the sound of people's hair and so your hair is like like oh you know that's the sound yeah
Trenton Reynoldsthat is fantastic
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI can totally make the sound you tell me someone's hair show me someone's hair and I will translate that into sound.
Trenton ReynoldsCan you make the sound of your hair? Well, I just got a haircut
Sabrina Ward Harrisonyesterday. My hair's like...
Keith PaughThis is good because I've never seen your hair. So then, I want to hear the sound and then I'll go see a photo.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOkay, let me think. How does
Trenton Reynoldsgive it a try let's see how it matches
Sabrina Ward Harrisonokay let me say it again it's like that's it No, no, no, it's not that. It's not that. Yeah, it's short. It's short and sort of curled a bit and just a bit long in the front, goes behind my ear. It's very tailored in the back.
Trenton ReynoldsI don't think I've seen this haircut.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonNo, did you know that I, here's a fun fact, that about three years ago, right about this time on my birthday, I decided to shave my head. It's really, really spontaneous, kind of weird decision to do it. Yeah, shaved it without thinking about like the length of the blade, like shaved it really,
shaved it. Like... Like...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonCourtney Spears. Shaved it all.
Just did it.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWow. It was kind of a note to self don't do in the winter time.
Trenton ReynoldsNow what would the sound be of that? Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. . Parodynamic.
Trenton ReynoldsParodynamic. Parodynamic.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsI would have thought it would be more of an...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh, yeah, that's true. More of a... It had this, like...
Like... Uh-huh.
Keith PaughThat's my favorite. There's a tightness to it, yeah. Exactly. It's like a... It strikes me as just like a drone, like...
Sabrina Ward Harrisonyou're right when you're going to sleep like what can you do what would you
Keith Paughkeep would you do trans there right now what is it that's good okay I just got really self-conscious. You know, it's kind of majestic. It's kind of majestic, and I was trying to figure out how to capture that.
Trenton ReynoldsI don't know if I can hear the sound of my hair.
Keith PaughYou're right. It's difficult. It's difficult to figure out what tone and sound something makes. It's like a... But then it kicks out in the back.
Trenton ReynoldsI'm surprised. I'm surprised. What about... I think I'm going to try to do Keith here because he's got a beard as well. So it's the whole... It's a surround. Yeah, surround sound. This requires 5.1 surround.
Hmm.
Keith PaughYou're right, I can't look at you while you're doing it.
Trenton ReynoldsThere's a contemplation. There's a completeness, a wholeness to the... Let me try again, let me try again. But there's confidence there, too.
So...
Trenton ReynoldsIt could be a two-parter.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt could be a two-parter. Like, what's a beard?
Trenton ReynoldsOr a core. Oh, a two-part. Like the beard and the hair separate.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsI'm going to say that the hair is... Okay. Well, he's got earphones on right now, so it's a little bit... I can take it. There's a little bit of that. See, now it's all messed up by the earphones, so there's a... Okay, yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. That nailed it.
Okay.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd then the beard is a little scraggly. But it's not like a map man beard. What does it sound like?
Keith Paugh- Uh-huh. - But maybe with some more feedback in it, like there's just distortion to it.
Trenton Reynolds- Put a little 80s or 90s grunge on that.
Sabrina Ward Harrison- Oh, that's good.
Trenton Reynoldsand we'll play on them.
Keith PaughPlay that at your at your soup party. It'll be a hit. It sounds the sounds of hair.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonTotally, totally, totally, totally, totally. Well, fun talking to you guys.
Trenton ReynoldsAll right. Good luck with the soup and happy birthday. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Are you going to take some pictures of the various soup?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYes, I am going to take some pictures of the
Trenton ReynoldsYou can find links to Keith's work and other things we talk about in this episode at roominthetrees.com. Become a patron of the show at patreon.com forward slash room. Please take a minute to rate us on iTunes, which you can do by following the link roominthetrees.com forward slash iTunes. And now, well, and now let me tell you what we've got to do. We've got to take a minute and send lots of happy feelings and love to Madison, Wisconsin, because it's Sabrina's birthday. Very, very happy birthday to Sabrina. I can't wait to hear about and see pictures of the soup party. It's going to be awesome. And now, now, and now take out your earbuds. Take a seat. Look around and take a moment to acknowledge what is you and yours.
It is enough.