WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.400 ♪ 00:00:06.400 --> 00:01:35.300 It is Friday, November 18th, 2016. This is Room in the Trees, a podcast about art, conversation, and creativity. Today it's mostly about conversation. The following was recorded on November 17th, 2016. This is episode number 27, "The Biggest Nut." Room in the Trees is hosted by Sabrina Harrison and me, Trent Reynolds. Show notes including pictures, links, videos, and more for every episode can be found at roominthetrees.com. If you like this episode, please consider showing your support. you can become a subscribing patron at patreon.com forward slash room. If you like this episode in particular, you can leave us a tip by clicking on the tip jar button in the show notes and subscribe. You can rate us or write a review on iTunes, which is perhaps the most effective way for us to reach more people. That link is at roominthetrees.com/itunes. And finally, thanks for listening, and thanks for your comments, Facebook likes, and all the ways you let us know you're there. Today we're shaking it out a little, re-centering. 00:01:35.300 --> 00:01:38.320 And we're back, folks. 00:01:38.880 --> 00:01:39.620 Right? Right. 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:42.600 Well. 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:45.820 That was easy. 00:01:48.440 --> 00:02:01.600 How's your nose breathing? How's my nose breathing? I don't know. You tell me. Okay. I think it's okay. Well, there's the other problem. Maybe I'm not going to even notice, even though I can hear it. Maybe what? 00:02:02.420 --> 00:02:02.920 What? 00:02:02.500 --> 00:02:07.940 maybe I won't even notice and you'll still have to tell me how's your number 00:02:07.940 --> 00:02:23.580 I think I know this I we okay well I think it's okay I just don't like I just don't like the sound of it I also don't like mouth breathing either. 00:02:26.180 --> 00:02:29.420 Yeah, like when somebody has a stuff nose. 00:02:32.900 --> 00:02:39.640 No, just when they breathe awkwardly. When they're working on something. When someone's really focusing. 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:40.520 Yeah. 00:02:40.500 --> 00:02:42.880 And they, I think for some... 00:02:42.880 --> 00:02:45.540 Well, what if somebody's working out? Is that, that's just a separate... That's separate. 00:02:45.860 --> 00:02:48.980 That's like, that's appropriate mouth breathing. 00:02:52.200 --> 00:03:03.200 Appropriate mouth breathing. Inappropriate mouth breathing is the awkward thing when you're like trying to focus on some little gadget. And I think that's what leads to heavy nose breathing and heavy mouth breathing. You're like... 00:03:03.200 --> 00:03:14.680 I often am focusing on little gadgets. So that's probably, maybe that's why I've got this nose breathing thing. 00:03:18.940 --> 00:03:28.100 I'm, I'm a little surprised. You've, you've told me that you have never really, or maybe you don't remember having, uh, having had the nose. 00:03:29.320 --> 00:03:29.820 Yeah. 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:32.420 I don't think so, but I know what you're talking about. 00:03:34.720 --> 00:03:45.640 It's happened to me multiple times. Over the course of my life, I'm not saying this happens to me multiple times in a month or a week or other, but the fact that you can't even remember it was a little surprising to me. 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.040 What's the last time? When was it awkward in your life? 00:03:52.180 --> 00:03:52.700 Wow. 00:03:52.700 --> 00:04:22.300 I can't remember the last time that it affected like a conversation, like that I was like talking to somebody and then I realized I had the nose whistle going on. But I, I do remember fairly recently, like within the last couple of years where I was trying to fall asleep at night and I had the nose whistle. Yeah. And that's what I was referring to earlier. 00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:28.380 Did it wake you up a little bit? 00:04:29.840 --> 00:04:36.900 I couldn't fall asleep because it was... Well, I was trying to... 00:04:53.500 --> 00:05:24.380 Yeah, or no, I just like it was there and I couldn't fall asleep. But, you know, I like when I guess when I sleep, I breathe primarily through my nose or at least when I fall asleep. I don't know. But yeah, I couldn't even yeah, I couldn't even fall asleep. It was right there. And that's happened with with Laura. Laura's had the nose and I've I've not been able to fall asleep because of her nose whistle. I can't believe this. I can't believe you haven't had this. Maybe you just have a better diet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:32.540 We did look it up, and it is something you're supposed to stretch your nostrils. Stretch them out a little bit. To read what to do. 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:39.300 That is a new technique to me. I still have not tried the nostril stretch yet. 00:05:40.200 --> 00:05:40.700 Okay. 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:46.420 Let's take a moment and just stretch our nostrils. 00:05:50.380 --> 00:05:51.020 Okay. 00:05:53.160 --> 00:06:06.920 Is that stretching your nostrils? Are you thinking that that's just like a, a serious flare of the nostrils or is it like a manually grabbing I think it's a manual thing 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:11.680 I think it's putting in your fingers basically in your nose and sort of stretching stretching 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:41.460 outwards okay I'm trying this right now Are you sticking two fingers in and kind of like... There's not a whole lot of room in there. Right? But easily. Really? Well, either you have small hands or a big nostril. My sausage fingers won't go in there. I can just kind of barely... I have to pinch and then stick them in and then kind of let go a little bit. And then they... 00:06:41.460 --> 00:07:31.980 That is so funny. It's just... My dad used to tell us that, because he has a great nose, but it's like kind of like, it's just a bigger nose. And he used to tell my sister and I that, he used to tell us a lot of things that weren't true that were really funny looking back on. But he told us that he once had a nose like ours, but then suddenly it just popped into this totally big nose. It just, boom, it just like opened up into this bigger. So we always were a little bit afraid that was going to happen. So I am aware. My nose, I feel like my nose changes shape. Like my nose, my nose adjusts to my facial size. 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:34.420 Yeah. 00:07:34.400 --> 00:07:42.260 so if there was a sudden expansion in your face yeah 00:07:42.260 --> 00:07:49.200 okay 00:07:49.200 --> 00:08:18.000 I do enjoy telling my daughters my kids made up stuff if they ask me if it's true or not I tell them no I'm just pretending but that gets me worried that maybe I'll tell them something like your nose is gonna pop some day and maybe they'll spend their whole life like anxious about the day their nose is gonna pop. 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:26.000 Oh yeah, there are subtle things you've done already that you have no idea the effect of they're gonna be talking about on a podcast in the future. 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:26.840 That's true. 00:08:27.160 --> 00:10:02.940 Actually, my sister and I are practicing today. My dad's 70th birthday is coming up a month from today, actually. And we are giving him a toast. And so we are from a distance. She lives in Idaho. We're trying to figure out how to give a toast, A, together as sisters. And then also what to talk about about my dad. So we both are telling these funny stories about... about things that he sort of told us and, you know, things that he did that were, you know, kind of epic things. Our dad and one of the ones that just will go down forever in history is, this is the biggest thing. this is the biggest sort of mix up of memory thing that I had, or story thing, just that's totally not true, is my dad and his sister, Judy, would refer to someone named Malcolm. And I was kind of in, I was in like, high school, early high school, freshman, junior high probably too. And then when she lives in England and when she would visit or we were in England, they would sometimes reference Malcolm and how is Malcolm doing? And, you know, and I would overhear it and And basically, and then he made this film about Walt Whitman, this true story about Walt Whitman going and helping liberate the head of this insane asylum, which is incredible. The story is called Beautiful Dreamers. It's his first film. It's a beautiful film. 00:10:05.020 --> 00:11:01.300 But I was under the belief by way of their stories that they had a secret brother named Malcolm who was... in Satan Asylum, that I believed. And I put together, that's why my dad did the film, because he was processing this, you know, this truth that there was this brother. And so I was going to college, and I remember there was, like, free counseling, and I totally processed that. Like, I had to work that out. I was a freshman, but I had this unaccounted-for uncle that... I like did this whole thing. Like I went home for Thanksgiving from school, like after like going, I just need to kind of bring this up and talk about it and find out like, and so I remember at Thanksgiving, my dad still like cries laughing at this. I totally seriously was like, 00:11:01.300 --> 00:11:04.760 Dad... 00:11:04.760 --> 00:11:13.100 I don't know exactly how I said it, but, like... I know about Malcolm, and... 00:11:13.100 --> 00:11:14.960 Like... 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:39.180 Just basically, like... And my dad just about fell out of his chair. He was crying, laughing so hard. He's like, oh, my gosh, that was a joke between Judy and I, because I guess they had a pretty rough childhood issues with their parents, and so... That was sort of this joke about how much their parents didn't talk about the real feelings and stuff and kept things under the rug. Anyway. 00:11:41.060 --> 00:11:42.600 Oh my gosh. 00:11:43.100 --> 00:12:02.720 You know, you're telling me this and I have a vague, vague recollection of you telling me about Malcolm. In high school. I think that came up in art class. That you had this unaccounted for uncle. That is true. 00:12:02.880 --> 00:12:07.200 That's incredible. That's what old friends are for, man. Really? Yeah. 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:14.040 I cannot promise that. My mind could be playing tricks on me, but when you said that, I'm like, oh yeah, I remember you telling me that. 00:12:16.540 --> 00:12:17.600 Oh my God. 00:12:17.880 --> 00:12:21.880 But the fact that you were, it was not until you were in college. 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:35.520 Yeah, that would have made sense because that was probably my senior year was when we had the advanced art class. And you, so that would have been the next fall. Totally working it out. 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.740 Getting to the bottom of this whole Malcolm issue. 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.960 I must have just, yeah, okay. Well, there's that. 00:12:46.260 --> 00:12:46.900 Okay. 00:12:48.540 --> 00:12:49.200 Okay. 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:57.660 Well, so we've covered the nasal whistle. And did we resolve that? 00:12:58.040 --> 00:13:06.980 I think it, well, we did discuss that we did find out that you just need to put coconut oil and then stretch it out a little bit. It should relieve it. That's right. 00:13:07.380 --> 00:13:07.900 Okay. 00:13:07.900 --> 00:13:14.140 those of you that suffer with coconut folding back into the storyline of the podcast 00:13:14.140 --> 00:13:33.540 right okay wonder wonder nut no wonder nut yeah oh it's a wonder nut but it's not a nut it's a fruit right or what is it what's a coconut 00:13:33.540 --> 00:13:42.400 that's interesting it's a very big it's a very big nut what is is the coconut a nut let me look it up 00:14:05.500 --> 00:14:13.620 Is the coconut the largest nut? Yes. Is the coconut the largest nut in the world? 00:14:23.900 --> 00:14:27.600 Desert. I'm kidding. Okay. 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:31.960 Well, I didn't know that there was a desert named Coconut. 00:14:33.860 --> 00:14:34.360 Oh. 00:14:34.820 --> 00:14:36.640 It's the biggest in the world, so. 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.020 It's the biggest desert named Coconut. 00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:45.820 I don't know about that fact. 00:14:46.540 --> 00:14:50.740 Oh, my gosh. I heard a... Well, Coconut's... Go ahead. 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:53.300 Good for you. No, nothing. 00:14:53.620 --> 00:15:20.520 I heard something wonderful that I found. I heard it twice. And sometimes there's a couple things in life that happen. Do you ever have something happen where three different people are different, completely like maybe you read it in a book, you hear it from someone, and then you hear something three different times from different sources, and you're like, it's the same thing. And you're like, that's just bizarre and kind of fantastic. 00:15:20.980 --> 00:15:22.000 Yeah. So this is... 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:29.500 Like you hear something new and then you hear that new thing two more times in rapid succession. 00:15:29.500 --> 00:15:37.000 Right. And it wouldn't be necessarily something that was like a new story or something. It's just like you hear it for the first time. 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:40.000 Right. Right. Right. 00:15:40.000 --> 00:16:08.220 Has this happened to you recently? Not in like this magnificent way that I've kind of built this up to be, but I was listening to Stephen Colbert on Fresh Air interview with Terry Gross a couple weeks ago. And he talked about, he said there was this quote that was, that life is like learning to play the violin in public by yourself. 00:16:08.540 --> 00:16:09.100 Right. 00:16:09.100 --> 00:16:38.000 like trying to figure life out. Like when we think we put so much pressure on ourselves to kind of have it figured out and get so frustrated and mad and exhausted by not, you know, not knowing, but it's completely is just like, we, we have no, we have no reference point for it all. Like we're just literally doing the best we can as if we were trying to learn how to play the violin in public by ourself. 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:40.000 Right. 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:59.400 That's what I was thinking about. That's what I wrote down. That's my note for the podcast. I am living like I'm trying to play violin by myself in public, which would be ridiculous if I tried to, which I maybe should do that. 00:16:59.400 --> 00:17:30.040 Well, it strikes me that that's an especially appropriate instrument to choose for the metaphor, because when you get violin wrong, there's something extremely grating about... And if your fingers aren't placed precisely, the note is just slightly off. Like with the guitar, if you mess up, it sounds off, but there's not that kind of dissonance that I think happens with violins. 00:17:30.040 --> 00:17:31.640 And I think light is like that, too. 00:17:32.380 --> 00:17:32.880 Yeah. 00:17:33.340 --> 00:17:52.640 And sometimes the slight misalignments are more disturbing than major... you know, things that are wrong. Or more, you know what I mean? Like when you're just a little bit off, sometimes that feels more disruptive to like your psyche than if something, you know, bigger goes wrong. 00:17:52.640 --> 00:18:20.020 - Yeah, like yesterday I was signing, when people order prints, For me, it's kind of an ordeal to get them and then I have to rent a zip car, which is great. But I have to go get the zip car and then I have to go. It's like an hour and a half round trip to go pick up the prints. So it's kind of like I try to do it all and get them all. Anyway, I finally got this print ready to send. And I went to sign it and I placed it down on wet paint. 00:18:23.920 --> 00:19:10.700 Okay. And yeah, and then you kind of avoid, so that's an example to me of like, just like kind of a quick, harsh flow to the flow, a little bit. Not harsh, but just... And then you just have to speak up. And so I just was like thinking, what can I do? What can I do? And so I kind of avoid it for four days. And then I just said, just took a picture of the back of the thing, took a picture of the front. You can't see it from the front. Sent her a picture, said, I'm not sure what to do. I can reorder a new one for you. I can give you something extra. Can you wait two weeks? And she's like, it was totally fine. She's like, it doesn't even matter. It doesn't even matter at all. I can't see it in the front. It's fine. And I want to order another one, too. 00:19:13.120 --> 00:19:24.120 And I thought I was so stressed about it and so worried. Sometimes it's like, I'm not sure what to do. What would you like me to do? It's sometimes just the easiest thing to say. 00:19:26.340 --> 00:19:26.840 Yeah. 00:19:26.700 --> 00:20:08.040 That might be an interesting topic for discussion at some other time. This kind of perception that we have of keeping a professional distance from people. You know, I think just wanting to come across more polished or more... You know, like in that instance, if it was a good friend of yours, or somebody that you, you know, had a more direct connection to or relationship to, you just call them up and say this happened and you know, it wouldn't be that big a deal. I don't know. 00:20:08.160 --> 00:21:31.760 Well, it's an interesting thing over the years for me because... So, I didn't realize that it was the same person who had actually taken a workshop for me years ago. So, I didn't put that together. So, sometimes she said, oh, I brought my daughter to the workshop in Los Angeles, you know, probably... eight years ago or something. Anyway, I think sometimes for a lot of people that buy pieces of mine are pretty familiar with my books and my books are so personal that again it gets into that territory. They feel pretty close to me. And so it's trying to navigate for me not usually knowing them personally for the most part how to be professional but sincerely just truly me and how I'm a one woman shop with two little kind of bothersome pups most of the time but very sweet and i'm trying to keep artwork off the floor so they don't step on it um but i'm you know so i am i'm doing the best i can in this like jerry-rigged i mean if you saw the way where i try to put all these orders together so it's not a it's not a fluid thing so it i'm my fluidity is it is of a different version and I think it's only taken me you know 15 years to try to sort of come to peace with that a little bit and sort of do it anyway you know 00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:56.800 How do you feel about that? Do you feel like when you don't know professionally quite how to do it, do you sometimes edit or hold yourself back from pursuing something even when you don't quite know the best angle, the best way to go about it? Yeah. 00:21:56.800 --> 00:22:02.180 I'm not sure if I know 00:22:02.180 --> 00:22:10.400 like for example say you want to I don't know well we're doing 00:22:10.400 --> 00:23:28.140 something right now actually I don't know I don't know if I'll keep this in the podcast or not, but I have been doing this video editing and there's a chance that I could pursue that in more, you know, more seriously and try to make that a more, you know, normal source of income. Just because I think going back and trying to get teaching jobs is a dead end and not going to be sufficient for what we need financially. or the other thing that but what I recognize when I do video editing is it's very isolated it's it's like me by myself a long stretches of time and I've noticed recently that I just don't feel as connected to Laura because I'm stressed about making money and so I'm like even when I'm home my brain is you know elsewhere And so I just was thinking one day, like, what are ways that I or directions I could pursue that would bring us closer rather than just putting more stresses between us, you know, and separating our lives even more. And this is something that we had talked about before, but we had the idea to pursue more seriously the doing murals for like children's bedrooms. 00:23:28.420 --> 00:23:28.920 Yes. 00:23:28.900 --> 00:23:42.360 So it's something where she could be the one that interfaces with the people. She's had a lot of experience the past several years with managing. So she could be the business side and also help me with the painting and coming up with design. 00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:44.600 I love that. I love that. 00:23:45.780 --> 00:23:56.040 So we are in the process of just photographing all the different murals that we've done over the course of the past several years and stuff. putting together a simple way. 00:23:56.040 --> 00:24:14.880 That is so good, and anyone in the LA area seriously should. I still think it would be awesome if you guys could do them for people that aren't local, but they're so beautiful, the ones you guys have done together, and I could see that being a really enjoyable way to be side-by-side working together. 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:16.660 Yeah. 00:24:16.600 --> 00:24:56.320 Yeah. And it's something that I just like video editing will never be common ground for Laura and I. It's just not something she's interested in. But this could be, you know, it has a lot of points of contact where, you know, we can talk about it and discuss it and think about it together. And it's not one more thing that, you know, is separate. So anyway, what I was going to say is that neither of us have any clue how to make this work. And it's kind of daunting to think of it. But that doesn't really answer your original question. 00:24:56.560 --> 00:26:18.540 I think it's good to talk about. It's good. Because once again, you're trying to play the violin in public, but you just kind of have to do it. yeah but and I think we feel that constantly over and over and over again it's like oh no like that's how I feel about like doing the home line like I won't really really really really really really really really want to do that and license my stuff but I kind of don't know quite where to begin and you know just stepping in to it but I, what was I just going to say? Um, I, so I was wondering for you, like when do you find yourself when you're, have you, or has it changed for you with like getting something solved or getting something figured out that you are work-wise a little bit more yourself in interactions? If you found like, Or even just in regards to the podcast, have you felt that it's helped or shifted a little bit your way that you interact publicly with people or professionally or just you're literally just you as a person speaking in the world? 00:26:22.040 --> 00:26:22.600 Yeah. 00:26:22.600 --> 00:26:39.160 Let me see if I can... Can I unpack that a little bit? Yeah, well, so what are you saying? Are you asking, has the podcast affected how I communicate with people? 00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:47.200 A little bit, yeah. I guess I was kind of... I mean, that question sort of created itself as I was asking more just in general, but... 00:26:47.200 --> 00:27:21.400 I think psychologically, just knowing that there are, you know, thousands of people that are interested in hearing what, you know, I have to say or we have to say is... affects my... my thought process. I guess when I'm going processing things and thinking, you know, I find that I consider how it might be relevant to what we talk on the podcast. Am I answering your question? I don't know. 00:27:21.400 --> 00:28:16.480 Yeah, yeah, I think I'm, like I've noticed just, I feel like it's helped shake out, I guess it's tied a little bit into us talking, you talking about the isolating part of video editing, and the isolating part of working alone as an artist. I think a lot has shifted with, for me, with doing the podcast. I really think it's helped me a lot with just shaking. I keep thinking of the metaphor. It's like shaking out, like shaking my shoulders and just shaking out the kind of mental around, around, around, around, around, around, around in my own head. And it just has kind of loosened the grip of... the questions I'm having, the questions I'm having, like I'm ventilating it, talking about some of these things with you on a regular basis and that feels like, and then feeling the sense that people are engaged in that, sharing the conversation with us in a certain degree. 00:28:18.360 --> 00:28:18.860 And 00:28:18.800 --> 00:29:17.180 I think it's really... I don't know if we're probably 8 months or 10 months in, but I feel it's really been helpful, really helpful for me on, I guess, the psychological level. And I think even in regards to selling my work and opening the Etsy shop, which started a little after, maybe 4 months or so after starting the podcast, I never was really ready. And I felt like... It's just really helped me loosen up with trusting my voice a little bit more and just lightening the load of expectation and trust. introverted, like kind of writing myself off as introverted and uncomfortable with, um, or too self-critical to be able to just let it roll as is. 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:19.440 Right. 00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:44.300 And so that's what I've known. And I've noticed professionally, I think it, it's, it's helping me in conversations just be a little bit more just forthright. And that's, something I really long to have in my, to have that grow and develop for myself 'cause I've never felt I could be that way so much. - Right. - So that's what I was curious about for you. 00:29:45.300 --> 00:30:35.960 - Well, I think I would agree with everything you just said. I've noticed all of those things. I think especially these kind of feedback loops that you get into in your own mind, right? Like things that just for some reason your brain holds on to and can't quite shake, you know, for whatever it can sort out. Being able to have a conversation with you about them and kind of helps me disrupt those, you know, those things that just... I can't quite sort through in my own mind. Somehow speaking them, getting them out of my brain, helps me, I don't know, keep moving forward, I guess, rather than just going over and over and over the same things, same hang-ups. 00:30:37.280 --> 00:30:37.800 So... 00:30:37.800 --> 00:31:38.000 And also just having the opportunity really to express my thoughts and try to figure out how to form those into sentences and ideas that are concise and understandable. It really helps sort and clarify what it is that I'm trying to accomplish. So going through the process of getting the studio and having to explain why I was getting the studio to you and trying to get other people excited about it, all of that conversation helps me to refine what it is that I'm after. what the vision is. So I think there's this nice kind of back and forth between having a vision, having ideas, having to communicate them to others. And in that communication, you further refine, you know, it kind of feeds back to the original vision and helps you see where it is that you 00:31:38.000 --> 00:32:15.040 you're trying to go that's what i feel is exciting the idea of a sort of gathering and a bigger conversation with some of the people that are everybody anybody who's listening when just would be we were talking the other day about how great to just um if you listen to the episode about um where where where we make art is that what it was called about up at the farmstead that I went to in northern Wisconsin. But the idea of just having a big gathering or something next summer, next fall, where we could have these kind of conversations all together. I just love that. I love that idea. 00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:18.400 That would be amazing. 00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:22.860 A massive fort building project to some extent. 00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:27.460 Yes. World's largest fort building. 00:32:29.280 --> 00:32:31.660 Fort building convention. Yes. 00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:33.900 Fort con. 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:36.500 Oh, my gosh. Fort con. 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:45.000 Oh, my gosh. It would be so... 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:46.840 Yeah. 00:32:47.800 --> 00:33:10.260 But this is, I think this is why we, in the beginning, had the podcast. And this is what happened in the room in the trees to begin with. Our collaboration is that we were able to have this fantastic conversation. And I think that continues for me to be what happens. 00:33:11.280 --> 00:33:11.800 Yeah. 00:33:11.800 --> 00:33:21.700 I wonder if we'll ever get in a fight what if we got in a total fight on an episode if we got in a fight? a serious 00:33:21.700 --> 00:33:28.060 what would we get in a fight about? I don't know there's got to be something I'm sure there's something 00:33:28.060 --> 00:33:40.680 let's think about something It's rare you fight with your friends. Like I think of my friend Jesse. Anyway, I couldn't think of us fighting either. 00:33:42.860 --> 00:33:43.360 Yeah. 00:33:44.260 --> 00:33:59.000 It'd be like you'd have to really physically hurt somebody in my life or something. Or you'd like stole my dog or something. Maybe you're right. You think what? 00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:28.760 Well, I wonder if we were actually having to plan an event and make decisions about logistics and how things are going to look. And I'm sure you have very specific or specific enough ideas that differ from, you know, kind of my vision and we'd have to negotiate that. But I think just, you know, from the history of our conversations, we're usually pretty able to negotiate. To compromise and get through those things. 00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:50.700 There's one thing that comes up for me I have to admit. I think because I'm not married and in a partnership with someone right now, there is a feeling like I think if you and I were having a conflict about something, Laura so has your back and would be on your side with just like, I feel like you kind of have a little tribe. You've got your tribe and I don't have a tribe on my side to be like, 00:35:07.600 --> 00:35:09.340 you know, it's a, 00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:26.200 yeah. And I, I didn't mean to laugh because I'm not trying to belittle the, the importance of that. I'm, I think though that you might be surprised how often Laura might side with you and not me. Kind of gets to the nature of our relationship. 00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:28.940 Oh, we have to have her on the podcast. 00:35:30.860 --> 00:35:32.800 Yeah. No, she'd love that. Well, 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:37.220 to do that sometime. Well, what else can we, what else are we going to discuss? What are we going 00:35:37.220 --> 00:36:31.160 to go over today? One thing that I had wanted to talk to you about, and I guess we've already kind of touched on it a little bit. That is that over the past month or so, we've recorded at least two full episodes, more than that. I would say probably three or four that ultimately we decided we weren't going to publish for a variety of reasons. and I've just been thinking about that you know sometimes it'll be because you felt like you weren't quite on and the same has happened for me like I didn't feel like I was quite on or express myself as clearly as I'd like for whatever reasons I like that we are able to do that you know if it just is not working then then we're comfortable enough saying that look this is not worth sharing with people and we can you know, skip it. We talked a little bit about this, but I thought I might want to bring it up just because there might be other people out there that run into similar types of things. 00:36:31.400 --> 00:38:12.500 There's a couple things that come up for me. One is, I think we're pretty, you know, as I go with the belief, create what you most want to find. And with this podcast I really feel like that. I want it to be sincere, I want it to be engaging, I want it to feel alive, I want it to be nourishing and comforting to a certain degree, and a little random. But very sincere is really important to me. And the quality of that, keeping to those standards is really important to me. And the overall picture, because also we're in there and then we're also held against the time, you know, time elements and time restriction on the time we have to dedicate to. If this could be a paid job, we could we could be able to do this for, you know, work a lot longer on this. But with time, the time element of things. we do run into sort of a pressure to perform a little bit when we have a small window of time and, you know, lots, lots of stuff is happening around us. Um, and sometimes we just don't hit the mark. And I think I, I, I do also appreciate that we can, um, we can recognize that and we can stay, um, stay with that. So I, um, I think that's kind of where I stand. I think I'm glad in the bigger picture because I feel like the podcast is growing in a really great way and in a natural way that we've made some of the decisions we've made as far as if we're not hitting it to not do it. It's just... 00:38:12.500 --> 00:40:38.060 Right, right. That's fun. And I think I've got to suspect that this is across a lot of different media. This has got to be the case where you start something, it feels really fresh. You feel really excited about it and it starts to get attention. And then all of a sudden you get a lot of people and there's all of a sudden there's this pressure to produce regularly. And it shifts maybe from this thing that came from a very authentic place into something where you're trying to force something to feel authentic. And I think I'm sure there are TV shows that we can all think of that for the first few seasons it felt great. But then you could start feeling that they were trying to just pander to the audience. and kind of lost its ring of truth somehow or just got stale somehow. Anyway, I think I've got to believe everybody runs into that, that produces shows like this podcast or whatever. And artwork. And absolutely. So, yeah, you can imagine an artist that gets picked up by a gallery. The gallery has a certain clientele. That artist gets known for making this specific kind of work. Mm-hmm. and then almost they get locked into that 'cause that's what people expect and they start to feel like they have to produce and maybe they don't really, aren't interested in that anymore but that's what they're known for, that's what they get positive reinforcement for and I can see how it would be even an unconscious thing where you start to kind of convince yourself that that's the right thing to do even though maybe your heart isn't in it it doesn't feel as vital or alive anymore. So I don't know. I've been thinking a lot about that. How do we keep it... How do we keep ourselves kind of in line and keep from getting... caught up in external motivators and keep it keep the conversation interesting and authentic to us and not get too caught up in trying to make something that other people people will like yes something that that feels right yes that's the 00:40:38.060 --> 00:41:01.500 same again and then going back to making stuff like you you you have this limited amount of time and you you want to generate some work and you just it's it's the most unbelievably frustrating thing when you when you feel that happening when it's something you'd love to do like we love to do this and when it's not it's not flowing and we have this limited time to don't to don't to to give to it in a in a 00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:46.140 trying to record, I was so excited to talk to her. And if it was the other way around and I hadn't talked to you in a while and you called, I'd be the same way. I'd be like, I can't wait to talk to you and catch up. So remembering, just remembering that, you know, before anything else is just a conversation between friends. 00:41:47.900 --> 00:41:48.400 Yeah. 00:41:48.300 --> 00:42:26.040 and as we i think just i totally agree with that and as we start to add other people to the conversation and interview people and think of other ideas of of live shows and events and stuff like that then i i can see how that might um i don't know it'd be easy to get away from that core idea of that this is a conversation between friends you know that that's and it's got to retain that that base that feeling of connection if uh if it's going to stay 00:42:26.040 --> 00:42:35.460 you know honest and feel feel authentic just tying it up with a bow tying it up with a bow i just 00:42:36.500 --> 00:42:37.680 Did I just add a little bit? 00:42:37.680 --> 00:42:45.960 You did. It's true. We were going to go over the questions about working together and get those answered. So here are the questions for us to answer. 00:42:46.820 --> 00:42:47.320 Okay. 00:42:48.700 --> 00:42:56.800 Where and when and how did you meet? When did you realize you would work together? I feel like this is like a trivia question. 00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:22.600 We can just both answer these at the same time, right? We met in advanced art in high school, and it was a classroom situation where there was a small group of people, and we were not very well supervised. So we had a lot of freedom and a lot of time to talk, and that's when our conversations and friendships started. Yep. 00:43:22.600 --> 00:44:02.680 And then when we realized we would work together, it was many years later, when we were both back in California after living in different places. And there was a crossover window of time that we both had absolutely nothing going on. And it was really, I found it a very helpful, I mean we had stuff going on, we were going, you know, but it was really helpful to kind of dive into some bigger, engaging, creative questions. And I really remember that standing out to me, our time spent doing some projects in downtown Los Angeles. 00:44:03.080 --> 00:44:03.600 Yeah. 00:44:03.600 --> 00:44:30.220 And it had been years, years, like over 10 years, right? Like a decade since we had had a meaningful conversation. Like very, very little contact. I don't think ever. I don't think ever. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I might have heard what was going on with you through a common friend, like through the Robert sisters or something. 00:44:30.220 --> 00:44:30.720 Yeah. 00:44:30.600 --> 00:45:12.140 but yeah so I have a vague memory of I think at the time I was into frisbees do you remember this? I had a frisbee in my trunk because I must have been when I first moved back from Chicago because I had a roommate in Chicago he and I would go there's a park across the street and we'd go through the frisbee and I really enjoyed throwing the frisbee so I think we got together and threw frisbee for a while gosh and that and we had a conversation that day that's the that's the first memory I have of you know when 00:45:12.140 --> 00:45:20.540 I love playing frisbee I forgot about how much I love oh yes I actually forgot about that but it was down at the Rose Bowl I think yeah 00:45:20.540 --> 00:45:22.300 yeah yeah the Rose Bowl 00:45:22.300 --> 00:45:34.260 And we had a great conversation then, and the conversation continued, and I think ultimately that's what led to us deciding to do this collaboration where we made the room. 00:45:34.260 --> 00:46:33.000 But remember before that, the first two things was the ballroom. There was this, my friend Mariana was manager of this loft building in downtown LA, which I mean, downtown Los Angeles has changed so much, so drastically since then. But there was a huge, huge space that was a ballroom that had been empty for years and years. I mean, what era was that? I mean, that was an old classic Hollywood era ballroom. And it didn't have any electricity really or lights. And Mariana just sort of gave us access to it. I mean, it was... how many thousands of square feet? It was a huge space. And at that point I was really into using my projector and projecting images onto walls and things. And so we were exploring that, um, 00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:37.780 Wait, when did we do that scavenger hunt? 00:46:38.020 --> 00:46:39.680 I was going to talk about that, yeah. 00:46:40.420 --> 00:46:42.420 Was that before the theater or was that after? 00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:51.380 I think it was after or maybe it was before. It might have been before. I have a photograph of that. We did rubbings on the sidewalk. That was... 00:46:51.380 --> 00:46:53.080 That's right. 00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:56.720 We had been talking about The Invisible Cities by Italo Covini. 00:46:57.020 --> 00:47:00.300 Oh, that's right. Oh, that book. Fantastic book. 00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:36.240 And so, if I remember right, I had a piece of paper and a pencil, like a woodless pencil, graphite stick in my car, and there was a grate on the ground surrounding a tree, and I did a rubbing so that we had a grid. and then I did another rubbing just on the ground, so I just picked up the texture of the sidewalk, and then the biggest splotch is where we went. So we used the grid as a map, and we went to the biggest, darkest spot. 00:47:36.600 --> 00:47:37.100 Yes. 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:52.280 which turned out to be this... Wasn't it an old theater? It wasn't an old... Or was that an old hotel? And these guys in the lobby, we just walked in and said, you know, look, we're doing... Do you remember what we told them? 00:47:52.660 --> 00:48:01.960 I think we kind of were trying to say we... I mean, I basically think we were literally trying to tell them what we were doing. But it was bizarre, right? 00:48:02.080 --> 00:48:03.600 They were totally confused. 00:48:03.700 --> 00:48:04.760 But they... Go ahead. 00:48:05.380 --> 00:48:21.400 They had this... Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. You tell the story. Well, they had this fantastic story of the building being haunted. So they told us a little bit about the history of the building. And then they got out their cell phones and they claimed to have pictures of this spirit that was haunting them. Oh, my God. 00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:24.300 I forgot that they got other stuff, like flip phones. 00:48:25.420 --> 00:48:25.920 Yeah. 00:48:27.180 --> 00:48:37.500 This must have been before iPhones and stuff. Flip phones. And they're trying to, like, super grainy photos of supposedly a spirit of some kind. 00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:42.700 That was, yeah, so that was, that was, that's awesome. 00:48:44.940 --> 00:48:47.600 That was so much fun. 00:48:48.340 --> 00:49:04.720 Thanks for joining us. You can find show notes at roominthetrees.com, become our patron at patreon.com forward slash room, and find a link to rate and review us on iTunes at roominthetrees.com forward slash iTunes. 00:49:04.720 --> 00:49:05.800 Thanks. 00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:27.500 We will be back next week with clear, well-oiled nostrils and more to say about living and creating. Until then, make some time, clear up some space, and let yourself create. ♪