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Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's Friday, October 14th, 2016. This is Room in the Trees, a podcast about places and spaces, where art is made. The following was recorded on October 11th, which is actually today. 2016 right now. This is episode 24.
Yes.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonRoom in the Trees is hosted by Trent Reynolds and me, Sabrina Ward-Harrison. Show notes including pictures, links, videos, and more for every episode can be found at roominthetrees.com. If you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to rate us on iTunes, which you can get to by going to roominthetrees.com forward slash iTunes. iTunes. It really helps us reach more people and just grow our handmade thing we're doing. And you can go to patreon.com forward slash room to subscribe and get special additional content on occasion. We really appreciate all of your support. Trent, don't you think we should, I think we should read some of these. Definitely. Yeah. So these are on iTunes. These are some of the recent ones which are so cool do you want to read one okay i'll read no yeah go for it yeah good wish you guys are on all day long this is by yooms or yo - Oh, my God. September 14th I'm going to guess Humes Okay, Humes Such personal, honest, and open-minded conversations It's so comforting to know there are artists out there with similar thoughts and fears Trent, Sabrina, and their wonderful guests do such a great job letting you know that you're not alone By sharing their ongoing questions as artists Very inspirational It must be a lot of work to run this podcast, but please don't disappoint
Trenton Reynoldsdisappear. Oh. And this one by By Alex, Radical Ruminations on Art and Process. I've had such a good time listening to these two the past week. I am an artist. I really like how they talk deep about art, goals, and their process with it all. They speak intentionally. Their words are full and substantial. They listen to each other. And dude, I've even paused the podcast to take notes. From the I Know This episode when they talked about self-deprecation versus supreme ego. You're the only person who gets to live your life, make your art. Mind blown. Anyway, truly, I'm really getting something out of it. Thanks to both of you. Thank you.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSo great.
Trenton ReynoldsThank you, Bile.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAlex. Thank you. Thank you. That's exactly our goal. In Love. This is the last one we'll read. This is by Caters88. Every time I listen, I'm struck with the need to create something. And each episode has been so freeing. Like these are the challenges, but keep making art. love. That's awesome. That's so great. Thank you guys. And it kind of fits perfectly with what we're going to talk about today with, um, we're talking about spaces and places. Trent, shall we? Here we go. Yep. Here we go. Okay. Enjoy. Do you have enough protein?
Trenton ReynoldsDo I have enough protein? Yes.
Okay.
Trenton ReynoldsI went home and I had some beef stew.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonGood work.
Trenton ReynoldsPlenty of protein. Laura, I like beef stew quite a bit, and she does not. So she was very nice and made me... beef stew.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonTrader Joe's has a good beef stew.
Is that right?
Trenton ReynoldsI don't think I've ever tried Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's rocks, man. They have so many just ready-to-eat, tasty stuff. They have a tuna wrap... that Laura's gotten for our kids. On occasion, we'll just pick up a bunch of Trader Joe's food and just go to the park and have a picnic. And I would have never thought to get a tuna wrap because usually the tortillas get kind of slimy. Yeah, yeah. But this thing is solid, solid little wrap. I ended up eating most of it because my kids didn't eat it. Yeah. Anyway. They just have the flavoring down.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThey must have a really great team of people that test the flavors of things. Because it's never that feeling of, oh, it's too salty. They really nail it most of the time. It's a good amount of spice. It's a good... It's just good. They're just great. Don't you remember them starting out? They started off in Southern California, like right by where we grew up.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, there was a store in La Cunada, right?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, or La Crescenta.
Trenton ReynoldsOr there's that one down by Lucky Boy in Pasadena.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, Lucky Boy, that sounds good right now.
Trenton Reynoldsso good so so let's talk about places and spaces
Sabrina Ward Harrisonso I came back from a really inspiring weekend I went up to northern Wisconsin to visit Chris and Bill who have created this beautiful farmstead outside of Minneapolis and it was just it just spoke my language it just felt And just the fluidity and then the meal was just nurturing and healthy. And their character is just exquisite, wonderful. Bill is so funny and witty and Chris is so intuitive and deep and soulful. It was really, really satisfying. I kind of felt like I was... kind of without words most of the weekend. I just felt like, wow, wow. And then this woman, Lynn, this artist, Lynn, led a wonderful workshop with foraging branches and things in nature, and we made... We made these kind of things to hang and have in your home. But I love that it involved taking these big walks through the prairie and... It's really, really good.
Trenton ReynoldsYou know, when you... Can I take a tangent real quick? Yeah. Yeah. So this idea of seeing something and just feeling that yes, like that immediate sense of nailing it, like everything about it is... The whole situation was just perfect. That felt very much like this morning, I had a workshop, I had somebody here, I was teaching them this new technique or whatever we were doing. It's not really important what it was we were doing, but all of a sudden, like 30 minutes had gone by and she hadn't said a word. And usually she's kind of anxious about what she's doing and asks a lot of questions and is like worried that she doesn't know what to do next. So it was kind of weird that she hadn't, or unusual, that she hadn't said anything for like half an hour, 45 minutes, and I look over, and she'd done these two amazing paintings. Like she'd started this, and with no prompting, and with no kind of intervention on my part, I just kind of got her started, and taught her the basics of this approach that I'm doing for this project. And it just totally was a hit for her and it resonated and just she went with it and she didn't feel any anxiety at all. Anyway, it just made me, reminded me of the moments and they're not very often, but when they do happen, it's wonderful to see when a student finds a technique or a material something that just hits so completely that, you know, it makes sense and there's no resistance, you know, that they can just get right in there and all of a sudden everything makes sense and they, in it, and they just, all of a sudden it's two hours later and they have made something amazing. I don't know. It's, it was, it was wonderful to see this morning and I kind of get that feeling with you telling me the story, like, like there's no need for explanation or any more, you know, reasoning or dialogue. It's just like, it's all there. This is the answer. Like, yes, it's all here. Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYes. And it also, it's a testament to you with your studio because that talking about place that she was able to have that moment because you create an atmosphere for that moment to happen. You know, if there had been all sorts of things in that space, you know, you created an atmosphere that was capable of a moment like that to happen.
Trenton ReynoldsI think both you and I feel really strongly about creating an environment where that can to happen. So very cool that you had this experience and found a place that was such a hit.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, after years of developing, thinking, and dreaming about the True Living Project and It just, this place and these wonderful new friends are just saying to me.
Trenton ReynoldsSo can you describe a little bit, like, how big is the land that we're talking about? What kind of buildings were there and... Like, what were the...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhat if I was like, well, it's about 10 feet by 10 feet. It's a... A little box. It's a little box, a little parking lot. It was a dairy farm. It has a really interesting story about these... And three women ended up kind of farming the land a few generations back. The husband or the father, something happened. He died. And so it was way back at the turn of the century. And it was really rare for, you know, I guess three women to live on a big farm like that alone. Yeah. and runs farm. I think it's about 120 acres I'm thinking or maybe a little under a hundred. It's called the Driftless region of Wisconsin so it has these rolling hills it's where the glaciers didn't come through. So, it, um, and they restored this, they restored the property and, um, it's, so it has, it has, they also, um, restored this big part of the land back to the original prairie grass. So, um, yeah.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonCan you tell I still really don't have words for the whole situation? Yeah, yeah. It's a good feeling, but it was funny to come back like, and the back. Okay. Okay. But I'm closer. I'm closer, that's for sure.
Trenton ReynoldsSo lots of space, awesome. We're not quite to fall colors yet, right?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonFall colors were starting in solid. It felt like the first full day of fall. Beautiful, the breeze, for me, really that indoor-outdoor experience of working, fresh air. Even if it's chilly, I just... feeling that fresh air coming through. There's a big piano in the barn and Chris was playing, he grew up being a classical pianist. So of course that just was fantastic hearing the piano playing and--
Trenton Reynolds- That seemed like, looking at the pictures that you sent, I was really impressed by how, like there would be a whole side of a room that would just be completely open. right? Mm-hmm. And that wasn't, it seemed like from the pictures that wasn't just one room. There were multiple rooms that just completely opened up into the outside.
Is that?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonNo, I think that's probably all from different directions in the barn. The barn's really massive. The barn could have like 20 rooms in it.
Okay.
Trenton Reynolds- Got it. Could you consolidate a couple things from that overall experience that you feel represent kind of the big ideas of what a creative place or space would have or would need? - Sure.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonFor me personally.
- Yeah, yeah.
Trenton Reynolds- Yeah. - We're talking about the True Living Project or this vision of an actual physical location that you envision?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWell, I feel like place to me has to always feel like it's full of possibility, like it's a living model of possibility. It's a living, working model of possibility, and I think the importance of environment more and more because we don't have to be living in the same city, like we can be working from all different places around the world, that more and more it's important to have a more fluid outdoor in the natural world. If we're going to be using technology so much, it has to be balanced by technology. um, the freedom on the space and the light of being outside. And I think working, working, what I like the idea of is something that's not solely a place to, um, I like the idea of a place that actually can work within the space. And that's what I really appreciate about living on the Central Coast, was I actually got... There was no cell phone reception, but I actually got way more work done being outside of San Francisco than I did being in San Francisco. I think I love sort of the decisiveness of living in New York and then living way out in the country. I don't think middle of the way isn't... I like one way or the other, and I think there's a time for both, but I think you're in relationship to the environment you're in.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd when for me productivity-wise, it would think like, well, let's make a reasonable thing. Like, for example, I'm in Madison, but I actually wouldn't say I'm more productive here than I would be somewhere else. like it space also doesn't have to do with you can have a space if there's space to do work but it doesn't mean you're going to really produce your strongest work
Trenton Reynoldsso part of it is having just literal space and and maybe also psychological space
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, psychological space is a big part of it, right?
Trenton ReynoldsWhat are the things that contribute to that psychological space? Like maybe proximity to like getting out of a city, you know, away from other people, that's literal space, but also just psychologically it helps you detach from...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonRight. But how does one do it within their normal lives? You know, that's a trick that I think we all are wrestling with. It's just how to drop down and drop in.
Trenton ReynoldsSo for me, my studio used to be the second bedroom in our apartment. And it was really hard to do anything there because the rest of my life was so close at hand that it was just easy to get distracted by something. something else that needed to be done, or even while I was working, be thinking about something else. Whereas when I actually have a separate location to go to, that helps me psychologically enter a new space. let everything else go so I imagine to an even greater degree if you're actually driving to a farm you know from even from Madison you know like yeah even a smaller city I imagine that that it would be easier to feel like you're entering in a creative space literally and psychologically
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, I remember when I lived in Brooklyn, there was this, I'm always a big fan of rooftops, and there was this apartment I was subletting a room in, and you'd climb up this, and anyone who took that workshop in Brooklyn will remember what we did, because I had more room. There's just some funny things that have happened. But we climbed-- there wasn't really room in the apartment for as many people as that came to the workshop. And we climbed up to this, you know, like thing that you climb up a ladder through this, like, trap door thing that goes up onto this rooftop in Brooklyn, Sunset Park. But, you know, like even in a big city, I remember, like I got more work done even on a rooftop in the middle of a big city than something about, I feel like for me, space, it kind of has to be like you're not allowed to be there. Or like if it's too pristine and, you know. Safe. Safe. You're kind of not going to go there.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's the same like working when you're traveling and you just have the limited stuff and you kind of have to do it on your lap and you're sitting on a bridge or, you know.
Trenton ReynoldsRight. It's almost like if you have to work harder for it, it becomes more meaningful or more...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's a more active experience, I guess. It's like...
Trenton ReynoldsWell, one thing that I think I've mentioned to you before that I think is somewhat related is that when I was in high school, I took a workshop from Ray Turner, who's a Pasadena artist and an excellent painter, teaches at Art Center, and just very, very cool guy. He's the guy, he's the artist that you want to be. Just everybody loves him, super chill, and he's a great artist. And he held this workshop out of his home studio, which was a converted auto shop. Like it was just this big, open, no windows warehouse space. And it was amazing. And I loved it. And it was so magical being in this dingy, dirty auto shop because he was there. And he was such a strong personality. And he had turned it into this just... like magical place. He had made this little corner of the, of the warehouse space into a library. And he had this freestanding tub that he had routed the plumbing to. And, um, and it was just like, we entered into this, this space that was just full of this creative energy. And it was just like this converted, you know, auto shop. So I don't, I don't know if that would necessarily work for you, but, but this sense of the... For you, yeah. The place having a strong identity rather than being a place that you go into and it's just kind of a generic like, you know bed bath and beyond You know, yeah Posters hanging up on the wall, you know, I don't know bed bath nothing nothing is bed bath
Sabrina Ward HarrisonBut just just too stylized or kind of perfect
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, exactly. Exactly. There's certain amount of grit and character and uniqueness like to the actual location that I think is just invigorating and inspiring Like you really can connect with the space almost as, as if it were its own character.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt must've been so great to see that when you're in high school too. Oh yeah. I will not forget this. This is what I want to be when I grow up.
Trenton ReynoldsIt's always that. Yeah.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd then the other analogy I've made before is the difference between a major museum like LACMA and every major city has their art museum. And all these museums have the same artists and they have the same collections. This is the Impressionist room. This is Picasso and Braque, the Cubist room. This is... Everybody's got the kind of same cast of characters. And then you go to a museum like... like the Phillips Collection or the Fogg Museum. And it's this museum that was created by one private collector. So there's this sense of an identity, somebody who had appetites and a personality that collected certain types of artwork. And it feels so much more intimate and feels so much more like there is a personality behind it. the collection, you know, you get the sense of an identity. And for me, like that, that is what I look for in a creative space. I love going into artist studios where there's, you know, each artist has their own way of making a mess and their own way of organizing supplies. And there's an energy to that individuality.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsBut that makes me think of this farm that you went to that I gather that it was not this a generic farm that was one of a billion. I gather that it was like it took on the character of these people that have Chris and is it Bill? Bill, yeah. Chris and Bill that have put so much love and attention into creating it that there's a strong sense of identity and intentionality to the farm. the actual place.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonHow do you think about, um, how do you think about like for people that listening and I feel like, I just keep coming back to when you don't have the space.
I mean,
Sabrina Ward Harrisonthere's so many times I've lived in places that I didn't have the space to work in and it does really, it can, the challenge kind of can be kind of exciting,
um,
Sabrina Ward HarrisonHave you, like, making ways, you know, just giving your supplies or just said stuff? Never. Okay, I guess I'll just say this. I think you're different definitely so much in this way, but, like, around stuff and organizing supplies. If I have paint all organized, I won't use it. If I have new tubes of paint, I won't use it. I won't use them, really. I won't really use them. If I have mixed-used house paint that is a color I didn't even choose, I'm all in. I will totally use it, and I'll use a lot of it. Something wrong with me? Not at all, no. It's a... The limitation part of space is really kind of... You know, whether it's limitation as far as, you know, heat. As long as it doesn't involve, like, not limitation as far as oxygen or something.
But...
Sabrina Ward Harrisonyou know, if it's really cold, I kind of work with that. I like the layers. I like having mittens on and kind of work. Then I get paint on my mittens, and that's okay. And do you think that that – does that excite you?
Trenton ReynoldsYou're always talking about the physicality of art making. And I think that's part of it, right? Is that there's this, there's this fight is too strong a word, but there's this tension, right? That is part of, is part of the process. I think, I think yes, but in different ways. I think what you're saying definitely resonates, but at the same time, yeah. For me, the ordering paints and putting them in containers and having them lined up, that helps me order my thoughts or feel like I'm...
I don't know.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, that's interesting. Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsSo I don't know. But in other ways, I think I like to... Like, I get pretty disinterested easily in one particular technique or material, and I like to try... I'm always looking for other new materials to tinker with or new processes or trying to use the same things and same old materials in new ways and... like I like to push boundaries, I guess, in that way, or find tension in that way.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd I would imagine because of the way you work, and you really understand paint in a different way than I do, but you know what you're working with. You're very familiar with your materials.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI guess so. the effect you're getting from everything you're using.
Trenton ReynoldsThere is a little bit of control issue in there. Well, going to art school, for some reason, nobody ever really taught me how to understand color. And for some reason, I don't know, I think it was a combination of reasons. I just never felt like I was taught that. So I had to work really hard to really gain an understanding where I felt like I... understood color and how to how it worked and how to reliably like mix mix a color that I wanted so I think maybe there there's a little bit of that in there too is just needing to feel like I've got a a certain amount of control.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonHere's something that's not controlled. Here's an idea. What if room in the trees, what if our podcast, I was just hearing about, people listening probably know Krista Tippett's podcast on being and Chris this weekend was talking about how he went over. She's in Minneapolis and his offices are near hers and went over to her studio and was like, you know, you live on one of the busiest corners of, of Minneapolis, like, how do you record in, you know, how do you record in here? And they, she took them into the booth, like, within the space, and I'm curious to see a picture of it, they, they sort of have this standing square, and somehow I'm visualizing it, like, kind of off the ground, something, you know, somewhere in this... Anyway, they have this square that as soon as you go in, it's a silent space to record.
Hmm.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonBut what it got me thinking about is what if Room in the Trees became literally a room in the trees that the podcast recorded from?
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, that would be amazing. I would love that.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI think that's on the radar for me.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI think it would be, let's just put that out there. I see it, okay, I see it where you would, it would be, you know how they have, oh, you know how they have those suspended, like they have now suspended rooms coming from trees, like all glass? Yes. like you're in the trees.
Mm-hmm. Like.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, for like safaris and stuff, like where you're not safaris, but you know, like you can go into the, whatever, on a safari and be up in the trees and be able to watch wild animals blow at night. Is that the kind of thing you're talking about or no?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat's a great example. But I think I've just seen in design magazines, like really sophisticated outdoor design and architecture magazines, examples of beautiful architecture that are suspended, these sort of suspended rooms or... Some of them are more like pods that kind of are within the natural landscape that... I'm going to get all over that. I'm going to find them. I'm going to get some for the show notes. I just have that idea, though, the idea of... Because I think as Room of the Trees grows, that's something to think about is the interaction with and growth of possibilities and projects and... collaborations with people.
Trenton ReynoldsSo you've talked a lot about fluidity between an environment or nature and a workspace. You've talked about... the physical location and the creating psychological space. We talked about like having, having places that are, have an element of tension or difficulty or, or something that you have to work for an element of elements.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsWhich I think, you know, maybe are not necessarily all the same space. You know, there are definitely, there's definitely room for places like, you know, something, a rooftop that you have to climb through windows to get to. But, you know, there's also room for a big barn that poses little threat, you know, that you can just go and... feel safe in too, right? - Yeah. - So different kinds of creative spaces that maybe evoke different kinds of energy. And for me, I talked, or for me, like this idea of each place having a very intense sense of personality or character, then not a feeling of like a generic experience or like somewhere where it's just just the same here as it is somewhere else. I would say even if it's kind of a character that's corny or, you know, not necessarily hugely romantic, like, you know, I was saying this auto garage had been turned into this artist studio, you know, it wasn't, it was the fact that it was such a strong sense of character there that made it so compelling.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWe didn't talk about kind of the people within the environment and place, you know, working solitary. I think we're referring mostly to working by ourselves, but place, that's kind of a key thing too, is your connection to others within the space you're working in.
Absolutely.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd it sounds like you've had a pretty wide spectrum in that regard too. Like you've had workshops where there have been too many people and you've probably had workshops where there was a lot more space per person. Are there any kind of unifying or underlying principles there or is it?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI'm definitely not a fan of carpet for sure I don't do well with carpet
Trenton ReynoldsI had never thought of that but I don't think I like carpet but I mean carpet's a nasty mess when you're you're trying to sling paint around.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonBut I do love rugs.
Trenton ReynoldsYou do love rugs?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI do. I do love rugs. I like a good, you know, kind of weathered oriental rug.
That's interesting.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, like I like that. I like that feeling under my feet of that. But I like it with the permission that it doesn't have to stay clean. But I really like that feeling. And I just love how that looks. I just love aesthetically. That's a beautiful thing. But I like, as far as people being closer and further, I think I like the feeling of someone being, you know, like you come in, it's like you've been out in the field. And then you come in for a warm, you know, cup of tea and some butternut squash soup or something. I like that feeling. I like that's important to me. It's just... Not all the time, but...
Trenton ReynoldsBut I think, like there's... And I, like you, I think I'm interested in there being an element of closeness, like actually being near each other and being in a room that's not too wide open that kind of embraces, you know, rather than just... is too spacious but then it's like almost having a room like that but the doors are open so there's this sense that of expansiveness and not a sense of you being trapped you know and that there's this kind of relationship between being gathering and being close together for conversation and community but also a part of the experience is to be able to have some your own space you know i I don't know. I think both sides of that seem to me important, important elements in a creative space. - Yeah. - Isolation and enough personal space to be able to be internally focused and creative, but also the conversation and group, the conversation and connection is the answer. other side of that coin. Yeah. That's it for today. And we hope you enjoyed the conversation. And if you would like to tell us about the spaces where you create your art or spaces that you feel inspired by, or what an ideal art making space would look like. please do so. I'll put a form in the show notes where you can submit your ideas.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. And send a link. I love bookmarking and looking at different places online that have pictures and so on. And if you know of any of these pod rooms in the trees, let's start a little collection of rooms in the trees. Don't you think? Yeah, absolutely. I think so. Let's get a file going on that. I'm committed to that becoming real. We're going to have that.
Trenton ReynoldsHashtag Room in the Trees on Instagram if you take a picture of your personal workspace.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh, good idea. Good idea.
Trenton ReynoldsIf you want to see show notes, they are at roominthetrees.com. and where you'll find all the previous episodes, as well as links, videos, and pictures for each episode. You can become our patron at patreon.com backslash roominthetrees. You can leave us a review. No, I thought it was just room. Oh, did I say that right? Yes, at patreon.com backslash room. We would also really appreciate it if you took a moment to leave us a rating on iTunes. We read them, we love them, and it really helps us reach a larger audience.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonHow many people do we have now, Trenton? How many people are listening?
Trenton ReynoldsWe are coming up on about 3,000 people, which is wonderful. Thank you.
A month?
Trenton ReynoldsA month. 3,000 subscribers a month. That's kind of a rough estimate. And you can leave a review and you can find us on iTunes at roominthetrees.com/itunes. And now, what should they do, Sabrina?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI don't know. Sorry, I wasn't prepared. They should now go take a walk. Or maybe you're listening and walking. I'm going to go take a walk and look at the light. I think another thing in last-minute cycle places is you've got to stop being in a place and go outside and look at the light. But I guess that's in my ideal space. I'd be doing that anyways. We didn't cut all that out. That's stupid.
Trenton ReynoldsIt's all right. I think keep it in. All right. Go out. Check out the sunset.
Yeah. ♪