WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:01:37.380 It is March 17th, 2016. This is Room in the Trees, a podcast about tenderness. and soft focus. No, it's about living life as a creative person, good and bad, probably leaning a little towards oversharing. This is an experiment, and we'll probably evolve as we go, but for the moment, our general format is that one of us will choose a thought, quote, subject or something to get conversation started and then we'll talk about it for a while this just happens to be episode number one love fernando room in the trees is hosted by sabrina ward harrison and me Trent Reynolds. This podcast is made possible by you. If you like what you hear, please consider showing your support by becoming a patron at patreon.com backslash room. Show notes, pictures, videos, and other stuff related to each episode can be found at our website, room in the trees.com. Go and check that out and feel free to leave us some feedback. And, brief, uh, brief feedback. And now we begin. Well, let's start. This is a, so this is a poem that comes from your library and why don't you read it? 00:01:39.100 --> 00:01:39.600 Okay. 00:01:39.500 --> 00:01:59.860 To be great, be entire. Of what is yours, nothing exaggerate or exclude. Be whole in each thing. Put all that you are into the least you do. Like that on each place the whole moon shines, for she lives aloft. 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:10.720 Way to go in with something really... complex. I don't know. 00:02:11.720 --> 00:02:28.420 And this is the poet Fernando Pessoa? Pessoa? Yes. I'm not familiar with Fernando. Yeah. I feel like... Fernando, love you, man. Love Fernando. 00:02:29.200 --> 00:02:32.640 We can always pick another one. 00:02:32.640 --> 00:03:33.500 No, I think this is great. But I think let's give that disclaimer that we're not trained and schooled in the history of poetry. But that being said, there's, I think, a lot to unpack here, a lot that we can dig into. I think of so many things. That's part of the problem is where to enter this. But I think the whole idea of being great and what that means to be great is so different. There's so many ways to think about that. Is it some kind of cultural norm or are there qualifications or ways to... to decide what determines whether or not somebody's great or there are maybe specific topics or ways that a person is great, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're great as a person or somebody that's noteworthy in a cultural level. Like, what is this greatness that we talk about? That's interesting. 00:03:33.500 --> 00:03:41.820 Yeah, right? I think of like... I'm thinking back as a kid when you're told, "You're great. You're great." Like, what the heck does great mean? 00:03:41.820 --> 00:03:42.820 Right. 00:03:42.820 --> 00:03:46.320 Can you look up right now on the computer what great means? 00:03:46.320 --> 00:04:33.480 Yeah, we could look up what great means. All right. Great. Of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average. Of ability, quality, or eminence considerably above the normal or average. regardless of what the definitions are, I think we have an intuitive sense of greatness. You know, somebody that sticks out, somebody that's especially good or noteworthy. And I think for most of us, and I don't know if I want to make generalizations and say that creative people especially... I don't think we tend to feel great. 00:04:35.100 --> 00:04:39.980 I don't think so either. I do not think so. I do not think so either. 00:04:41.600 --> 00:05:14.200 I think, like, when we think of greatness, it's the people that are visible. You know, that... that feature, being visible, having celebrity, having some kind of presence or visibility on a larger scale, that seems like an important or essential part of greatness. But in reality, I think of the people that I would consider great in my life 00:05:43.500 --> 00:06:12.580 I really felt like she was completely there. Like we were getting, as her students, we were getting all of her. There was not any reservation. You didn't feel like she was being very calculated in how she gave out attention or love or anything. care, like she gave it out freely and completely to everybody, you know? She was invested in each person. 00:06:12.580 --> 00:06:40.300 Without any hesitation about her snark, if she felt snarky or in a bad mood, and that's why you could sort of trust her greatness, because she was decisive with... I love to, you know, sometimes you see her, when I think of her, I just think of her dashing between those two classrooms and just always just freaking on going and in a mood and you're like, okay, but it was, it was so authentic and. 00:06:40.300 --> 00:07:11.120 and... You're right. And sometimes she was totally, totally grumpy and like very on edge and if you got in her way or did something dumb, she would let you have it, right? But I think that is definitely part of it, right? You got a sense for the spectrum of who she was, both good and bad, and that there is an authenticity or a realism in that that yeah, I definitely think was part of her greatness. 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:29.900 And it makes me think about when then there's a line of like, have a great time, have a great life, have a great day. You know, just it's what that makes something great today. 00:07:30.300 --> 00:07:32.300 Mm-hmm. 00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:48.300 Well, to be great, be entire, so having a great day would maybe in that, along those lines or in that definition would be to have a day where you feel completely engaged in whatever activity you're doing. 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:49.300 Yeah. 00:07:49.300 --> 00:07:57.880 But then the kind of American culture of like... be happy and get a lot done doesn't make for a great day all the time. 00:07:58.420 --> 00:07:58.920 No. 00:07:59.700 --> 00:08:28.160 There's something there about the mismatch between defining greatness as being some kind of an entirety as opposed to having a great day or being a great person, being something that's filtered and only the good stuff, only the happy, only the highly productive and efficient and... Like that's that's part of greatness, but it's I Don't know I think that's that's what draws me to this quote. Yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead 00:08:28.200 --> 00:08:40.420 Yes, like the next line of what is yours nothing exaggerate or exclude beholding each thing put all that you are into the least you do. 00:08:40.420 --> 00:08:57.000 Of what is yours, nothing exaggerate or exclude. So of what is yours, what is, what is it that is ours? What is this thing that we're not, what are these things that are ours that we're not supposed to exaggerate or exclude? 00:08:57.000 --> 00:11:29.400 I feel like it's the complexity of all the feelings. It's the fear. It's the confusion. It's the not knowing. It's the... I'll give you a little example of yesterday. It was really, really, really, really windy the past few days. And I have a balcony that has this kind of bamboo, like crappy bamboo, kind of wind protector, sun protector, privacy fence that goes up higher than my balcony. And the whole thing just got blown kind of over and was... breaking and just, it's old and crappy and I'm like, I'm going to just cut this down and trim it. And I was completely, I went out with scissors, it was still really, really windy. The sun was shining and it was just cold and I just was not in you know, handyman outfit mode or anything, and I'm like, "I'm gonna just trim this down," and like tried with the scissors. I'm like, "Nope. Nope, that's not gonna work." So I'm like, went down to the shed and I got out these pruning, tree pruning, tree pruning clippers and like came up like, "Got this." I'm like, "Nope, totally rusty, rusty, rusty clippers. That's not gonna work." But I got so into just the physicality of the light and the figuring it out and then I'm like I've got WD-40 and I went to spray it and I'm like No, there's no WD-40 left. I'm like I'm gonna figure this out and Then I got I'm like I've got vegetable oil oil isn't that that'll probably work it poured vegetable oil on these clippers and I It wasn't about it like it just did a hack job like but I loved the Sun was out the birds were chirping The light was beautiful and I'm like I was entirely in it and I wasn't I was like I'm not even I don't even care I don't even care that that's It's a bad... It's not like I went out with a... This is the plan, and I bought the certain tool for it, and I measured it properly. Like, I cut the entire thing, but then I realized I cut it all too tall, so it doesn't fit under the... So it's cramming this bamboo in. But it felt so good. It made me so... I felt like it was a great day, because I just... And also, again, going back to the physicality of your day, like just getting into it. I think that's the same with painting and creating. Whatever it takes to just be in it and not be calculated, I guess, in your life. 00:11:29.400 --> 00:11:48.200 What parts of your life or what is an experience recently that you don't feel like you've been entire? Where you do feel like you've excluded or exaggerated something? 00:11:48.200 --> 00:12:11.300 I think when I've been told or I've told myself you should just do this the way the other people are doing it and you should just, this is like, this is the easiest way to do it around like social media things and being like, I just took a break, a week break from Instagram. Like I just, I don't feel like I'm really living my life when I'm tethered into that. 00:12:11.300 --> 00:13:04.620 I think that's another part of this that's tricky is, you know, like social media, it didn't exist before very, very recently. We can add to ourselves. We can become something different. We can adopt new ways of communicating with other people or connecting or expressing ourselves, right? That can become part of what we are. But it is also a good example of something where maybe we tried to, become that or add that to us and have that be part of us, but we realize that it's a mismatch. It doesn't fit or it becomes something that's an exaggeration of who we are or it becomes something that represents an exclusion or... just not something that's ours to own, so we have to stop. We have to say that I just can't do that and still feel myself. 00:13:05.180 --> 00:13:24.100 Because it becomes now the discrepancy between your actual life and then the sort of thing you're trying to manage this other whole thing. I can't put the words to that, but that really resonates for me. 00:13:24.100 --> 00:14:41.180 I can imagine there are people that did not feel whole, that did not feel that they were entirely engaged in expressing themselves before social media came along. I can imagine that there are a lot of people that social media enabled them to feel complete, to feel entire. That's interesting. And therefore, you know, to feel great. And, you know, I think the converse is probably also true that social media has probably also made a lot of people, and I know in my own experience in my life, I see people that feel less and feel incomplete because of their relationship to social media and The expectations they start to develop, the comparisons they start to make between themselves and their lives and other people. I mean, there's-- Yeah. It can cut both ways for sure. I think as a culture, we're still trying to figure out what it is and what it means and how to incorporate it. So that's interesting to think of just pace. I think of you two like going and it seems like you found residence in Madison, Wisconsin. For some reason that location made you feel more entire. Would you think that that's the case? 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:42.100 Yeah. 00:14:42.100 --> 00:15:26.460 As you know, I'm very, very good at finding stuff on the street. And it always feels a little bit mythical and religious and spiritual to me because I'm like, no friggin' way! I was just needing that! And it always kind of reboots my whole system of, like, faith. I'm telling you, I needed... I've had this crappy twin mattress so stupid to sleep on with two dogs. So inappropriate. It's the world's stupidest mattress. I slide off it all the time. Dogs fall off it. And I'm like, I need a beautiful memory foam thing that holds me to my bed. 00:15:27.620 --> 00:15:32.700 And I was walking down the street the other day, and I... 00:15:32.700 --> 00:15:48.980 And there was a someone had just put out exactly it fit my bed totally good condition friggin memory foam Bed top thing oh My gosh a chickadee just flew against my window and knocked itself out 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:50.700 A what did? 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:54.140 Oh, a chickadee, a little bird. 00:15:54.700 --> 00:15:55.200 Hmm. 00:15:55.840 --> 00:16:29.160 A little bird, just, yeah. Anyway, and then I went back, and then there was a mat, there was these two, two fantastic couch pillows that, like, fit my couch and the back of my couch perfectly in perfect condition, and it just was one of those, like... It sounds funny, but I wish I videotaped the whole arrival of seeing him going, no way. It was also the windiest day in the world, and I'm carrying these huge mattress things and whipping back and forth. 00:16:32.660 --> 00:16:33.500 That's awesome. 00:16:34.400 --> 00:17:34.600 I think I really have this... Well, it goes back to the room in the trees thing. The sense of just... things are waiting for you to experience and find and collect, put together and make. Just to, I really think there is something about the, the, I don't know if divine is the word, but just something you have to be engaged to find any... really engaged. I mean, it's the best thing. It's, like, better than some stupid tweet or some stupid other validation. Like, I just stood there, but, like, the sun was turning... golden and rosy and I'm like, "I found these pillows and this mattress thing and I'm, life is good." Versus like going, "Oh I found it on sale at Bed Bath & Beyond." I was like, "No." 00:17:34.600 --> 00:17:35.300 Right. 00:17:35.620 --> 00:17:38.320 This might not make sense to readers, listeners, but... 00:17:38.320 --> 00:18:17.100 Well, no, I think for you, it's very important to feel connection with the universe or this kind of... Yes. Your surroundings, you know? And if you go to a store where things are prepackaged and... you know, you're not, you're not in tune with anything. You're just, you know, kind of participating in the, in the rat race and, you know, the pre-packaged life, you know, whereas when you find this thing, uh, out in your environment and it feels like you are, are connected with something larger, you know, you're, you're, 00:18:17.100 --> 00:18:17.940 Yeah. 00:18:18.640 --> 00:19:44.100 Like the story of it all. Like the story's happening. Yeah. Like the story of... The story is happening. Well, I think what's interesting to me is this... The idea of being entire implies that there... It almost implies that something is... like it's a static thing. Like we have this thing that we are this thing and we can either be, be this thing or not. I'd like, like it's a preset thing, but, but I think what both you and I would agree on is that who you are and what you, what is yours is, and what your potential is is constantly evolving. And that it's not something that's predetermined or it's not something that's set. It's something that you have a lot of decision and it's something to be discovered and to be created rather than something more passive like that you don't have control over. So I think that's interesting too, that like you're feeling, uh, you're, you feeling like your entire and authentic and in tune and, uh, you know, present, I think, um, is a very fluid thing. It's not something that that's nailed down. 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:45.220 Yeah. 00:19:45.200 --> 00:20:09.840 And it's not something you arrive at, that's the other tricky part of it, it's like, you just aren't gonna, there's no answer to it. And how do you feel about this in regards to say, working on a painting? approaching a painting, approaching like a part into a painting. How does this kind of speak to that for you? 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:27.760 I don't know. I think like anything else that you do, that painting... When painting's at its best for me... I'm pushing myself. I am not worried about the end result. I'm engaged in just the process. 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:43.200 So you're being in tight... I'm thinking more about just the physicality of making it. Going in strong. I'm all in. To be great, be in tight. Going bold and... 00:20:43.200 --> 00:21:29.000 And not being careful or protective or forcing it to do something that it doesn't want to do. It's also like acknowledging that the painting is its own thing, you know, and that it has needs. It has a direction. It has a potential that is in some ways independent of me. You know, that this is something that both me and this painting are creating together as two almost separate identities rather than it being something that I'm kind of willing into existence. I really do think that the object of art takes on its own, I don't know, identity or spirit or... 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:40.380 When do you think you first experienced that feeling creatively in painting? How old or what? Do you have a memory of like when you just dropped right into it that way? 00:21:40.380 --> 00:22:06.100 Well, I don't know. I don't know if I'm sure I had an awareness of that before I was able to consciously point at that and understand it. I do remember being old enough to be taught that, creating art as more of a conversation between two things rather than it being like me, you know, willing something into existence. I remember that being a very powerful idea that was taught to me or shared with me or I found somewhere. 00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:22.520 We've talked about this before as far as teaching because you want to give that feeling to your students and that balance of how to evoke that, like... just get into it deeply and fall in love with the making of it you know it's like 00:22:22.520 --> 00:22:52.120 yeah we need to know what it is what is ours to say you know and that's what we're searching for that's what we need to be in tune with and and learn how to express and I think that's something as a teacher that I I find a great deal of satisfaction when I see students that are able to find those things that are really theirs and find a way to express those in a way that I can tell they think is truthful and complete. 00:22:53.440 --> 00:23:32.500 And I think that's a lifelong question of like, what is ours to sound like? I don't know what's mine to say. I don't know. like I still think my life I really should be a professional fort builder I just don't think my memories of creating started so little I was so little and I was forts were the whole thing it's a thought behind the first thought where you go what do I want to do but what I really want to do is if I could just do anything And also the idea of forts is so different than the idea of like I want to be an architect right like no I want to make stuff out of just found 00:23:32.900 --> 00:24:09.120 One of the things I love about your parents houses it had that feeling of there's a 40-ness to it and Like, when I walked in there, I felt like the books and the decoration, and it felt so cared for and like found and put together intentionally. And it wasn't like prints from... Ikea up on the wall, you know, it was... No, no. You know, it wasn't books on the shelf that you would expect to see in any household. You know, it was like these very intentionally placed and collected things. Anyway, I'm sorry I cut you off. 00:24:09.800 --> 00:24:31.900 I really get that. I really get that from both my parents. I really... And because we moved so many times, probably like 15 times growing up, the way my mom could just be renting a house and just boom, we just had that place in the most magical, we just moved in, boom, magic, special, creative, problem solving. 00:24:31.900 --> 00:26:30.380 All right, Fernando Pessoa. All right. I'm going to read it one more time, and then let's have just closing impressions or thoughts. To be great, be entire. Okay. To be great, be entire. Of what is yours, nothing exaggerate or exclude. Okay. Be whole in each thing. Put all that you are into the least you do. Like that on each place the whole moon shines, for she lives aloft. That last, what I'd like to say in closing, and I think going back to Melif, because I think she is such a good example. of what this poem represents to me. She, this last phrase, "Like that on each place the whole moon shines, "for she lives aloft." I really do think that Mila found a place, like a mental, physical, emotional, spiritual place that she could exist and be herself entirely. and live in the world and be whole as the moon, you know, has a place and its proximity to the earth and its proximity to the things that it shines on is just as important as what it is, if that makes sense. There's something spatial and a relationship aspect to this whole thing that I think is really important and I think Mila kind of embodies. She was able to find that place. Keep going, yeah. She was able to find that place where she could exist and be whole and she could illuminate and the effect that she could have, the light that she shined was whole. You know, it was like it illuminated completely and it represented something that was complete. An energy that was complete, an identity. Anyway, I'm kind of all over the place with that. 00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:46.180 That's fantastic. That's fantastic. That's beautiful. That's true. And by being all of herself, so it wasn't that she was like, I'm shining this light down for everyone else with this balanced proximity. Like she was messy and raw and as is and truthful. 00:26:46.780 --> 00:26:56.420 She was just herself. She was the whole moon shining for she lives aloft. She found that place. Amen. 00:26:58.300 --> 00:27:02.400 One day we'll have to have a conversation with her. 00:27:03.380 --> 00:27:04.940 Oh, for sure. For sure. 00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:07.300 I'm going to say something to the audience right now. 00:27:08.660 --> 00:27:10.220 Oh, you go. Go say something. 00:27:12.260 --> 00:27:48.360 I'm saying... that this is me in Madison right now, March 18th, 2015. And I hope people are all able to just take a breath and be grateful. entire and be gentle with your greatness and the greatness of the little details and the little moments and follow the light look at the light in the sky oh 00:27:48.360 --> 00:28:46.180 my gosh this is dumb sorry no no own it that's great Well said. And I think the only thing that I want to say, I will say to you, but also say to whatever audience there might eventually be for this. And that is that the people you surround yourself with are an essential part of this. this goal to be entire. And I feel like, you know, I want to pay you the compliment that you are a person in my life that I feel like, you know, a unique friendship that I really value. And I feel like you're a person that I do feel like I can be entire with and not feel self-conscious or judged or misunderstood. You're one of those rare people in my life that I can feel that. I like the entirety of me is accepted, you know, and, and that is, that's a treat. Yeah. I'll leave it at that. Thank you. 00:28:46.260 --> 00:28:56.420 And I think it's critical to have, hear those kinds of conversations and relate that way. I mean, you may not feel so alone with the questions. 00:28:57.560 --> 00:28:59.600 For sure. Thank you. 00:28:59.600 --> 00:29:03.440 okay signing off we did it 00:29:03.440 --> 00:30:26.700 thanks for joining us and I hope you'll continue to listen we've already recorded four episodes that I am excited to share with you we'll be posting one a week Sabrina and I also have a bunch of ideas for this podcast and for the website. We would like it to become much more than just an audio podcast. We'd like to find ways to give you excuses and reasons and an appetite for getting your hands dirty and making stuff. If you are interested in seeing where this goes, again, I would ask that you consider supporting us at patreon.com backslash room and by sharing this podcast with your friends. The website is roominthetrees.com. where you can find show notes and much more. And we're on Facebook. Music for this episode was provided by my brother, who is awesome, and you should check out his music on SoundCloud. His username is VentersStagMotel. Come back next week for episode two, The Disabler. I think you'll like it. ♪ ♪